Talk:Phi Delta Theta

Racial discrimination history

I submitted edits to clarify what is an inaccurate and misleading description of 20th century racial issues. These were based on personal memory as a participant in some of the pivotal events involved, but my edits were removed citing personal memory as an inadequate source. I assume documentation exists somewhere, but I don't know where, or whether I can get access to it. As an undergraduate member of PDT at the time of those events and someone who put much effort into eliminating the blatant racism that existed, I believe the current text is worse than no discussion of the subject at all and believe it should be deleted if it can't be corrected. But I'm not an experienced Wiki editor and would like advice before proceeding. Jonathan Langsam (talk) 20:08, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

@Jonathan Langsam: Rather than deleting or giving up, have you tried reaching out to the organization's national headquarters? I'm sure they have historical archives that would verify your recollections that could be used as citations. WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 21:47, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Phi Delta Theta does have its fraternity magazine online at https://www.phideltathetaarchive.com/ . I'd count those as reasonable sources, albeit needing to be augmented by external with a Neutral Point of View. For example, Amherst and Williams being suspended is mentioned at https://www.phideltathetaarchive.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/1953-54_vol78_no1-5.pdf , but the fact that Williams was suspended for initiating a Jewish Student is at https://www-jstor-org.wikipedialibrary.idm.oclc.org/stable/23603603?searchText=1953+regents+amherst&searchUri=%2Faction%2FdoBasicSearch%3FQuery%3D1953%2Bregents%2Bamherst%26so%3Drel&ab_segments=0%2Fbasic_search_gsv2%2Fcontrol&refreqid=fastly-default%3A1effe82174158fcc7cf450fd25184bc0&seq=3 (Discrimination in Education in the 1954 American Jewish Yearbook). (Wikipedia Library is *very* useful). I'm not sure if your time in PDT is in the 1950s or 1960s, I'd say the issue spans at least 20 years. Also, I'm not honestly sure that PDT is particularly problematic compared to the rest of the NIC, especially those founded south of the Mason Dixon line. I look forward to improvements. Lets start with the statements you find particularly problematic.Naraht (talk) 13:22, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you. Your comments are very helpful. For the record, I was a PDT undergrad 1963-67 and a chapter delegate at the 1966 convention, where the penultimate step toward resolving the issue at the national level was made. I'd not been able to locate The Scroll online and found the headquarters website uninformative but hadn't contacted them yet. I can't imagine this not being recorded in The Scroll, though it was an embarrassing issue to many at the time and would probably have been something rather forgotten than gladly advertised. I will come back here once I've searched harder for documentation.

The most misleading and objectionable statement to me was the assertion that PDT had eliminated racism in 1954 by striking the explicit clause, when in fact the implicit replacement had the same effect, at a time when our chapter was forced to repeatedly reject outstanding pledge candidates for racial and cultural reasons. I can't say whether PDT was among the best or worst in that regard, though I do know at least one other national fraternity on campus had no such restrictions. Jonathan Langsam (talk) 20:23, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

The Scroll Vol.91 No.2 November 1966 has a long article about the convention that year, in which removal of the restrictive clause is referred to obliquely in several places. The actual clause to be removed is not quoted anywhere, though its restrictive nature is referred to in several places. The new clause is quoted: ""Each chapter shall select its members from among the male students who are in regular attendance at the college or university at which it is established. Those chosen by the chapter must be men who exemplify friendship, sound learning and rectitude."

One of the main reasons for this change quoted in the article was to avoid pressure on individual chapters to lie when asked by their university administrators to swear that there was no racial or other such restriction on their membership. Jonathan Langsam (talk) 21:07, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Unfortunately, I don't seem to be eligible for access to Wikipedia Library because I'm not a dedicated editor. Jonathan Langsam (talk) 21:25, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

I'm not sure where to put this. I have no objection to the contents of The Scroll article. It makes very clear the sense of the fraternity leadership in wanting to eliminate the existing membership requirement (in essence from memory: must be socially acceptable to all members of PDT) but it doesn't actually state what that requirement was, only the replacements being proposed. It was very clear to me at the time, both in the official sessions and informally, that the leadership was working very hard to pass the new requirement. I suspect that The Scroll article's omission reflects embarrassment about the past during a time of major upheaval in social attitudes. What I find inaccurate and misleading is the sense that the issue was resolved in 1954/56, when it was just covered up at that point and wasn't fully resolved until 1966/68. That may seem unimportant to some, but those of us who suffered through that period know what damage was done. I think my original edit accurately describes the situation, but I need a reference somewhere that says what the stricken clause was. Whether there's anything published about it elsewhere (neutral) I'm inclined to wonder about. Jonathan Langsam (talk) 00:57, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

I contacted PDT Headquarters per their website instructions asking for access to The Journal of Proceedings for the years 1954, 1956, 1966, and 1968 and told them I wanted to clarify the history of those years but have not heard back from them. I will be back in the area early next year and will go to Oxford if the proceedings are not online and they allow me access. Hopefully they'll do that. Not sure at this point whether there is any "neutral" source for this, or whether the details are publicly available. Given the mix of conflicting attitudes within the fraternity at the time, I would be surprised if the pledging of the first "not necessarily acceptable to all" individual was publicized anywhere. Jonathan Langsam (talk) 22:23, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

My own fraternity had *somewhat* similar issues allowing women (we aren't a social group) with an unwritten down "Gentleman's agreement"...Naraht (talk) 02:01, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Jonathan Langsam All(?) of PDT's issues of the Scroll are at https://www.phideltathetaarchive.com/ . I will say that your comments indicate that you don't want the Wikipedia article to completely reflect what PDT put in the scroll at the time. It really can be a *long* gap between when National goes "Oh sure, our chapters can admit all men at the school" and (random large school in the Midwest) Michigan State admits its first (terms from the time) Negro or Hebrew with Nationals happy about it. And whether the other group on chapter had no such restrictions, depends on whether they actually had broader membership. You may want to use a source like the American Jewish Committee or something like the NAACP whether they really believed it. Does PDT publicize when the first Negro/Hebrew member that was accepted joined?

From the 1954 Jewish Yearbook.

The suspension of Phi Delta Theta at Williams College, Mass., by the national body in February 1953 for initiating a Jewish student received particular disapproval in the nation's press because of the test set forth in the national membership eligibility rules restricting membership to "men of white and full Aryan blood." The Amherst chapter of Phi Delta Theta was suspended on May 27, 1953. This chapter had disregarded the racial criterion for at least five years before the suspension. The college authorities at Amherst College, in 1946, had required college-recognized fraternities to eliminate all restrictive membership.

1954 vs. 1956

I noticed in https://www.phideltathetaarchive.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/1954-55_vol79_no1-5.pdf that although the removal of the aryan clause was done in 1954, the removal didn't go into effect until it was confirmed in the 1956 convention. I'm not sure how the article should be tweeked based on that.

And is there any chance of having the Journal of Proceedings public?Naraht (talk) 22:06, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

It was standard procedure that any change to the constitution required approval by two successive conventions, so an amendment first passed in 1954 would not become effective until it was ratified in 1956. Same for 1966-68. Jonathan Langsam (talk) 00:32, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

The Scroll Vol.79 No.2 November 1954 p.77 includes a statement from the convention "For the exact wording of Gordon Shepherd's amendment readers are again referred to the Journal of Proceedings. Suffice it say, that it removes restrictions as such, but makes it unmistakably clear that members of Phi Delta Theta must be acceptable to ALL chapters."

This is exactly what I've been referring to. We need access to the Journal of Proceedings for documentation. Jonathan Langsam (talk) 01:24, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

And even as a brother, getting access may not be easy.Naraht (talk) 01:59, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Asian

In the In the Bond 1848-1998 is *this* quote...

In looking back as we approach the 21st century, it is ironic that the initial struggle was not a white-black issue but a CaucasianOriental issue. It was the California chapters with their fear ofAsian culture and the visible Asian presence on the west coast that led to the inclusion ofthat unfortunate term "Aryan" into our Constitution back before World War I.

Love to find evidence on *that*.Naraht (talk) 22:10, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

And we should find again the date it was added. I did find it once and both dates were in 191X (and not 1910), but I can't remember where. :(07:58, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

Secondary source

I found https://time.com/archive/6627614/students-fraternities-get-the-grip/ . Would this be a good place to reference and take phrasing from?Naraht (talk) 02:06, 2 December 2024 (UTC)