Talk:BIKINI state

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Military history: British / European

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Untitled

The Alert States are (in increasing level of seriousness): .... then the table list Red, Amber, Black ... Does it means Amber state is more serious that Red state? -- Kowloonese

Yes it means so, french uses the also Amber colour as the worst colour. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A01:E34:EC12:36C0:C46A:CEA0:F5E0:C273 (talk) 09:26, 31 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

um ... I was trying to show it graphically as increasing by being higher in the table, but maybe it isn't as clear as I'd thought. Red is highest state of alert, white lowest. ps. It is usual to 'sign' your contributions to talk pages by writing "--~~~~" at the end (a couple of hypens followed by four tildes: this puts your name and the date/time) --[[User:VampWillow|Vamp Willow]] 23:28, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Hey, what's ALL IN CAPITALS, dude? Wetman 08:26, 5 Oct 2004 (UTC)

They're codewords. All-caps is the common convention for codewords: see, for example, their use at http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200102/cmselect/cmdfence/518-ii/2013002.htm -- Karada 08:34, 5 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Why is it called BIKINI state? Is it named after underwear styles? Are there a BOXER PANTS state and a THONG state to go along? Kowloonese 21:52, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I believe it is named BIKINI after the Bikini Atoll used in one of the first atomic bomb tests in 1946. 134.219.148.43 16:58, 22 March 2005 (this signature added by *Ulla* 21:58, 9 August 2006 (UTC), collected from the page history)[reply]

Why would the British use this word for that reason? The atomic tests there were made by the Americans. I figure, since it is a code word, it is just a word picked randomly. -*Ulla* 21:58, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Still wondering. And "I figure" doesn't count as a valid cite. :-) -- Writtenonsand 18:28, 27 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The MoD say it was randomly selected by a computer [1] so I've added this to the article. Hut 8.5 17:11, 1 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Having the codename BIKINI as well as alert status on the signs seems redundant. I had assumed that there was a sequence like Bikini, Bath Robe, Tuxedo and Suit of armour. Although the set of words may be random. Andrew Swallow (talk) 06:51, 26 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Go watch the movie "Threads" for free at [www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MCbTvoNrAg youtube] and you can clearly see this system being highlighted and used as the UK prepares for imminent hostilities with the Soviet Union.

There were also two status alerts for "Counter-Surprise" that were maintained at UK bases as part of NATO's Military Alert System. "State ORANGE" - enemy attack expected within 36 hours; "State SCARLET" - enemy attack expect within minutes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.241.165.157 (talk) 21:58, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Unless extra alerts applies to nuclear weapons I suspect that those values are just that film. The script writer may self censored the system to ensure that he was not arrested. Some of the writers of this article know more than they are saying. Andrew Swallow (talk) 04:41, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

actually talk) i separated the two pieces of information. Scarlet and Orange have nothing to do with the movie Threads--and frankly your comment is baffling. http://www.nato.int/nato_static/assets/pdf/pdf_archives/20121128_19561022_NU_SHAPE-AG-1401-PP_ACE_Counter-Surprise_Miltiary_A.pdf Maybe do some research before you post. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.241.165.157 (talk) 10:26, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The page says that Amber and Red were only supposed to be used for a short time, but living on an RAF station for most of the eighties I remember the sign on the guardroom *always* saying "Bikini Amber" - so much so that I thought it was a single phrase. PeteVerdon 16:07, 13 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Could that have been because the cold war was on at that time? -*Ulla* 21:58, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

No. I was also in the RAF in the 80's and we were usually on black or black alpha (as it used to be called)--Dingos-Kidneys (talk) 14:40, 14 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Threat levels

I feel that it would be informative to list each of the specific times at which the threat level has been elevated to the maximum, and the probable reasons for this e.g. the 2007 Glasgow International Airport attack. Can anyone get this information? Ygoloxelfer

This is the first time under the new system - before that it went upto Amber a few times (during the IRA campaign and after the London bombings) - but it never has been at "Red" under the old system was more related to the cold war. I suppose you could do a FoI request to the MOD requesting the BIKINI status for x years, however personally I don't think it is worth it.

Actually, it has been at RED once, when Bobby Sands MP died. There's a ref to that in some Select Committee on Defence Minutes of Evidence (line 255) - this also has data on the costs of changes to the alert state, in terms of increased policing etc. I might add this info to the article... m3tainfo 00:20, 9 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The White alert state was dropped several years ago as it hadn't been used in 30 years. The BIKINI alert states are still used. I'll have to check at work what the current definitions are but I think the ones given here are wrong. Red and Amber are used for a period of a few hours when specific threats to a location are known. Black and Black alpha were merged and are generally considered synonymos by us civvies. I'll get back to this later after I've got current definitions. PeterCScott (talk) 17:40, 14 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Why is this information on an international forum?

It's supposed to be "Restricted". PiP (talk) 19:35, 25 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Circular logic I guess, but the fact that it's here would mean that it isn't?Johnmc (talk) 13:02, 20 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Trouble is the alert states are Restricted, they shouldn't be here. Can an article be removed from Wikipedia? PiP (talk) 23:05, 7 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It's only of casual interest to me, but the main reference for this article (link on main page) seems to be an article in the "New Statesman" that lists all the alert codes. The article mentions that it's "not used for the general public." Whether that's the same as "restricted", i'm not sure. There is another link mentioned which links to a MoD memorandum, at the House of Commons records site. That memorandum lists 3 (Black Special, Amber and Red) of the alert states. It looks as if information regarding the alert states is well and truly in the public domain. Johnmc (talk) 12:32, 8 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The BIKINI state is NOT restricted information as it is on display, usually on a board, in the reception of most, if not all government buildings. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.195.135.112 (talk) 14:32, 14 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The alert state might not be restricted but the definition as to what the alert state means is. PeterCScott (talk) 17:42, 14 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

RESTRICTED was a British security classification lower than CONFIDENTIAL. Documents classified RESTRICTED were frequently declassified after 5 years. Since the system has not been used in over a decade I suspect that no one bothered to renew the classification. Andrew Swallow (talk) 03:17, 9 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Current use

Is there any evidence that the coloured states are being used now? I suspect they were changed in 2006 and are now purely historical. --Rumping (talk) 11:49, 29 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

With no response, I will change the article to indicate the historical nature of the coloured alerts --Rumping (talk) 18:06, 23 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The alert states were changed ie White was dropped as it hadn't been used in 30 years. There was also a degree of simplification with the numbr of levels being reduced. PeterCScott (talk) 17:44, 14 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Colours?

Weren't the levels

RED
AMBER
BLACK
BLACK SPECIAL
WHITE

?

Who has changed the colours round? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Blackmojito (talk • contribs) 13:24, 26 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

No. Black Special was a higher state of alert than Black. --Rumping (talk) 10:47, 1 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Definitions

In DERA in the 90's, we had a different and less reverential definition of the defence condition states:

BIKINI BLACK - stroll into work
BIKINI BLACK ALPHA - stroll into work and the guard checks your pass
BIKINI AMBER - long queue to get into work as guard is checking passes and all vehicles
BIKINI RED - don't bother trying to get into work - go home and kiss the wife and kids goodbye!

There also was a less well publicised Alert state based upon the risk of being the target of terrorist attack, but I can't remember the designation

Malvern ex-pat

Agree with above Served 1989-1994 with REME all over the South of England. The Alert state was invariably Black Alpha or Amber - I've never heard such a state as 'Black Special' used in Aldershot or the South of England during that period. Based at S.E.E. Arborfield, RCT Buller Barracks, and RAMC Keogh Barracks in Mytchett. Nigel Kenworthy (talk) 09:34, 24 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Terrorism

Did Bikini State really only refer to terrorist threat? That seems odd, at least in 1970. I thought it related to the security/defence status of an establishment. Cyclopaedic (talk) 20:06, 10 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The system was set up for the Cold War including fighting invasion. Fortunately the Cold War never went hot. On battle fields the troops can go to higher alerts. Andrew Swallow (talk) 01:53, 11 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

So why does the article limit it to terrorist threats:"to warn of non-specific forms of terrorist activity"? Cyclopaedic (talk) 16:24, 11 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Poor wording of the article. Andrew Swallow (talk) 18:22, 11 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Other states?

I seem to remember (and I'm going back 20+ years) other states that covered the likelihood of attack on helicopters (TAHITI?) and other special threats (PIRA mortars?) Does anyo ne have information on them?188.29.116.247 (talk) 01:13, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I remember Tahiti which referred to the likelihood of mortar attack, there was also another (Tesseral) used by the AAC/RAF bases for threats to air traffic. 81.103.95.88 (talk) 12:31, 15 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

C & R?

Near the end of the article, the abbreviation "C & R" appears. Is the reader supposed to know what it means? 86.132.221.80 (talk) 19:13, 8 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]