Talk:Upper Canada

First paragraph cumbersome

The first paragraph would be incomprehensible to anyone not living in Ontario or familiar with its geography. A map of Upper Canada would eliminate the need for this cumbersome description of boundaries. Upper Canada = Ontario (less HBCo lands beyond the Hudson's Bay watershed). Notwithstanding all the misinformation, the north shore of Lake Superior and of Lake Huron (within the Great Lakes watershed) have always formed part of Upper Canada), but for practical purposes there is no need to go into this as Upper Canada 1791-1840 was the pioneer period of southern Ontario. Later consolidation of Empire Ontario into Northern Ontario is well explained in the Ontario article, and need not be repeated in the Upper Canada article. The bibliography I added may help others to improve this article which is still pretty weak. --BrentS 00:51, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

• I agree a map would help, but also it need dates and legislation causing the formation and cessation. Cafe Nervosa | talk 01:01, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
• A simple map would really help. --Luis Fernandes, Feb.1, 2005

A British North American colony

Upper Canada is best described as a British North American colony created by statute of the Parliament of the United Kingdom in 1791 and governed by a governor and legislative assembly. Prior to that it was the pays d'en haut of New France and part of the Province of Quebec (1763-1791). Upper Canada was a political and judicial unit, like any other British colony (Nova Scotia, Barbados, New South Wales), not some vague geographical territory. Ontario celebrated its bicentennial in 1984, that date chosen mainly because it coincided with the end of the American Revolution and the influx of Loyalist refugees and military personnel. We need to know our history better, folks.--BrentS 01:01, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Origin of Name needed

Some info on the etymology or origin of the name "Upper Canada" is needed. I was under the impression it was named so because it was on the upper part of the Great Lakes watershed / St. Lawrence Seaway. I do not want to add this info without proper documentation, though. This would serve to clear up the ocassionally held public view that the British were somehow expressing, in this name, a sense of superiority over the French in "Lower" Canada.

Yes. Upper Canada and Lower Canada relate to their location along the river-lake system. Lower Canada, although higher in latitude, is more importantly lower in altitude, with much of the St. Lawrence River near sea level. Upper Canada is higher in altitude, some 180 feet above sea level at Lake Ontario, and much higher for Lakes Erie and Huron, and higher still for Lake Superior. GBC 23:04, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, actually I don't think the lakes played so much a part. The St. Lawrence was the major thoroughfare there and the Lower Canada was accessible first, and the Upper Canada was accessible farther upstream - hence 'Upper'. It's not so much about altitude or headwaters, per se, because that wouldn't have been the language used to describe/explain it at the time, but rather the language of travel time/distance would have been an explanatory factor, if you want it historically and contextually situated. 2001:569:7D1E:7100:957C:DABD:A601:A051 (talk) 05:11, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

That last comment is a bit bizarre. The fact that rivers flow downwards (in terms of altitude) is not newly understood in the last 200 years; that is where "upstream" and "downstream" come from, etymologically. Newimpartial (talk) 14:32, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

Defacement

Removed trolling comments left by vandals. Bwryan2006 16:27, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Merger

I suggested this merger because, according to the article for Canada West, Canada West is the exact same geographical entity as Upper Canada, merely renamed once becoming part of the Province of Canada. Having a seperate article for an alternate name is absurd. Howa0082 23:44, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

• Support. There is very little information about this topic, and most of the info found about this is under the name Upper Canada or briefly mentions CW as a minor note. Readers will get more information about the topic if these articles were merged.Z1720 07:39, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

I think Canada West should be merged into the Province of Canada article instead. The Upper Canada article only applies up to the year 1841, while the Province of Canada article deals with the history of both Upper and Lower Canada (Canada East and West) from 1841 until 1867. — Kelw (talk) 00:49, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Yes merge with the Province of Canada article, not Upper Canada. Make a cross reference Canada West see Province of Canada. Canada West could be a full section in the Province of Canada article.--BrentS 04:01, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Agree. "Canada West" should not redirect here. Canada West refers specifically to the territory coterminous to Upper Canada, during the period of the existence of the Province of Canada. It should redirect to Province of Canada. Király-Seth (talk) 17:52, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

Agree. It's just the same province with a different name, although have West Canada redirect to the paragraph describing the name change in the Upper Canada article. Delta40_talk 05:05, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Let's merge it with the Upper Canada. The articles are basically one in the one same, despite the name difference. --Axe27 18:45, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Merge the bloody thing! The onyl difference between the two is a name change. Wikitank 02:14, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

• It is now merged as a part of (and with a redirect to) Upper Canada. It has its own section entitled Canada West. Wikitank 02:21, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Merger 2 Discussion

An article on Canada East, requiring substantial rewrite, would seem sensible to include in this article. Have created section to receive the article once it is edited to match format of this one. --Haruth (talk) 04:53, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Wouldn't it make more sense to discuss Canada East in the article about Lower Canada? After all, Lower Canada, not Upper Canada, became Canada East. //Essin (talk) 13:39, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

I stongly oppose the merger. I would think that the two articles should go to the Province of Canada article if anywhere. I'd never come to this article to read about Canada West as Upper and Lower Canada both ceased with the Act of Union 1840.Argolin (talk) 06:27, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

Upper Peninsula

I don't think it's correct that "until 1797 it included the Upper Peninsula of the State of Michigan." Yes, British forces remained at Fort Mackinac (and probably other places in the Upper Peninsula) long after the war was over, but it was obvious to everyone that according to the Treaty of Paris, that region was part of the United States, not Quebec or Upper Canada. Indefatigable (talk) 04:31, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Hello Indefatiguable. The present borders of the State of Michigan were actually apart of the Province of Quebec from 1783-1791 (and apart of the Province of Upper Canada from 1791-1797). Yep. 'Tis true ... strange but true! It was the first of many Canada-US border disputes that we Canadians lost. Ole 1797 was the very first of many "short-ends-of-the-stick" that we Canucks got stuck with :)

ArmchairVexillologistDon (talk) 07:16, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Michigan as part of Upper Canada

Where is the proof that any part of Michigan formed part of Upper Canada until 1797? Find a reputable source by a major historian. This is complete fantasy. The British made no such claim. The boundary was fixed by the Treaty of Paris (1783) and the only subsequent adjustments were in New Brunswick and the Ontario-Minnesota border. The British might have lingered a bit on a couple of islands just as they lingered at Grand Portage, Minnesota but they never claimed that they owned this land. They acknowledged that it was American territory. Please remove this bit about Michigan. Upper Canada = Southern Ontario + the watersheds of Lake Huron, Lake Superior and the Ottawa River. Any watersheds flowing into James Bay and Hudson's Bay were not part of Upper Canada.

1774 map presentation awkward

There needs to be some comment on the 1774 map. It can lead readers to confusion. It includes land that after 1789 would constitute the Northwest Territory of the United States, and it includes land that after 1791 would be called Lower Canada.Dogru144 (talk) 09:08, 16 May 2012 (UTC)