I have a question for you since I have a large interest in language contact phenomena on various levels. Unfortunately, I know next to nothing about Tagolog except that has massive borrowings from Spanish if not massive relexification. I'd like to use Tagalog as an example sometimes, esp. to avoid using Euro-on-Euro examples; however, I would like to find out your impressions first. So, if you're up for a chat and also want to know more about Montréal and Québec City, let me know! CJ Withers06:58, 1 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
OK, here goes... Before reading the Tagalog article, I'd love to know how you, as a L1 speaker, view the "Spanish words" in Tagalog. Also, do Tagalog speakers (unilingual or multi-lingual) who don't know Spanish at all view the "Spanish words" as having a foreign origin? Also, it would be interesting to know if the borrowings were done by L1, L2 or both types of speakers. A relexification process in which the phonological framework of Tagalog was used seems to indicate an L2 borrowing; however, it could also have been non-hispanophone Tagolog speakers who recast L1 hispanophone Tagolog speakers' "hispanisms" or those by people whose mastery of Spanish was like an L1. My question seems confusing, but, again, I want to know if Tagalog could be a good example or a good counter-example. CJ Withers07:15, 1 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Excellent! Thank you SO MUCH, you hit the nail on the head. I started reading the Filipino vs. Tagalog article and totally understood, esp. about the purist part. You see, years ago, I had a course in Language Contact, but the professor was only interested in creoles and mixed languages; there was no mention of how English is a mixture and how Tagalog is too. In terms of how the vowels "e" and "o" were borrowed into Tagalog, they make Tagalog the poster child for how even phonemes can be borrowed, which my professor was reluctant to admit.
Also, in your opinion, how many fully bilingual Tagolog-Spanish speakers were there historically, say, around the turn of the 20th century? Was is also possible for ethnically Tagalogs to grow up only knowing Spanish except, say, to use Tagalog with servants? I'm thinking of how French was a main language for wealthy/prominent Russians who often only used Russian with Russian-speaking monolingual servants... CJ Withers07:46, 1 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks again, esp. for the social aspects since we cannot remove the human part of human language! And, yeah, I completely saw the mess concerning Filipino vs. Tagalog. It made me think of the sociolinguistic situation of French here, which I will NOT get into right now. ;-) Btw, I reworked the article on Quebec French, though have yet to redo social aspect because it's touchy and the truth will scare people who only have preconceived notions or imaginings. CJ Withers08:17, 1 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Just dropped in to say that my oppose has nothing to do with your edit counts. It is just that I am not sure you have been able to keep up with the policy updates with so low interest in discussions. If it weren't so low and so centred (on WT:BABEL), I would have been pressed to support. Saw your contributions; you are an asset to Wikipedia. — Ambuj Saxena (talk) 19:11, 6 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I was about to say sorry for the 'plain' and simple, nothing fancy nomination. I was worried when I saw your oppositions. But 49 counts and still increasing!!! Nakakaingit ka pare! --Jondel08:39, 10 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
First of all, second those congratulations on your graduation, will you go on to do a masters? Second of all, thank you _very much_ for your input over at ftb. Its always great to get input from a bilingual native speaker, and a linguist no less :) Thirdly, good luck on your RfA. - FrancisTyers·09:06, 7 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Christopher, have you considered listing yourself at this category? A "campaign promise" to do so might assuage concerns that you're not experienced or knowledgeable enough about policy. btw, thanks for answering my question about page moves. Whatever you decide to do, good luck in your RfA!--Kchase02T00:48, 9 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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This is the best answer I have seen for this question. BTW, you don't have Hindi as one of your user languages. Did you seek help to write hindi? Or did you use a translator? Regards, — Ambuj Saxena (talk) 16:04, 12 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) Congrats, Christopher! I really wanted to support during your RfA, but was told it's a bad idea to vote in someone else's during your own. :| I wish you luck in your admin career. :) ~Kylu (u|t) 06:04, 13 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Congrats to the new multilingual admin! But did you really get a vote from only one Irish speaker, so you used the singular there? How sad... ;-) Fut.Perf.☼06:26, 14 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I am happy that your nomination passed successfully. Now your real test begins: Please be careful when you need to block. Sure, I want you to enjoy those functions, but know that every move will be scrutinized. Good luck. Mostly Rainy01:48, 16 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
To the people who have supported my request: I appreciate the show of confidence in me and I hope I live up to your expectations! To the people who opposed the request: I'm certainly not ignoring the constructive criticism and advice you've offered. I thank you as well! ♥!~Kylu (u|t)23:21, 18 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Hello. I have been populating the above mentioned list since a few days and the list is now complete. I searched around for some wikipedians from Philippines and came to your page. I don't have much knowledge about Philippines or names used in that region. Could you have a look at all the names and check their spellings? There may be some people who already have articles on wikipedia but they still show as red links due to spelling mistakes that I may have made. Thanks. If you don't have much time, I will ask someone else. - Aksi_great (talk) 17:31, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
You are violating the process of the 'delete category discussion list'. Deleting by de-population is still deleting, just trying to get around the rules. I have asked that all your work be reverted.
It is a fact that you ignored the content of the articles. The content (fact) of the articles governs what categories they belong in--not your personal ideas that are in conflict with the articles. You should know better than to have done these deletions and ignored all WP processes for fact determination. Thanks Hmains21:10, 18 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Are you talking about 'ethnic Filipino editors on WP' or 'WP editors (regardless of ethnic or national origin) who are interested in Philippine topics'? Thanks Hmains22:07, 18 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I did not write the content of these articles and have no resources to check the facts stated in the articles. I do not do WP article writing: I work on copyedits and on categories.
On the matter of categories, I go by what the text of the articles say. Thus, I respect the WP editing process under which many editors have contributed to the current article content. I do not look elsewhere for information and do not imagine that I have any better information than what is stated in the article. Thus, if an article says a person is a Filipino and was born of a Filipino mother and a Spanish father (or vise verse), then, to me, the article is properly categorized when it has been placed in Category:Spanish-Filipinos. Again, I did not generally add such categories in the first place, but would have done so based on the facts presented in the article and now defend the use of the category for the same reason.
When you say you have done all this research and, based on your research, the category should be deleted from the article, I find it very strange. If you have done such research, then the first thing to change is the text of the article. If you have found that the mother or father (as the case may be) of the Filipino was not, in fact, Spanish, but something else, then you should change the text of the article accordingly. You have not changed any of the text of the articles (for all other interested editors to evaluate), so it looks like you are just using your personal opinion to negate the efforts of all the previous editors of these articles. And that you are just doing mass category deletes with no particular examination of, or respect for, the articles' texts. Generalizations cannot be made: each article must be examined individually, as I did yesterday in re-adding most (not all) of the categories and adding discussion notes for editors to consider.
You may be right or you may be wrong in your assertions as to what categories are correct. I do not know. What I do know is that you are short-circuiting the entire WP article editing process to achieve the results you want to obtain.
I am sorry I have to write the above, but I am given no real choice in the matter and still do my job as a WP editor. I hope you will consider what I have written.
17:44, 17 August 2006 Christopher Sundita (Talk | contribs) moved Iloilo (province) to Iloilo (Back to Iloilo.) (revert)
17:44, 17 August 2006 Christopher Sundita (Talk | contribs) deleted "Iloilo" (Deleted to make way for move.)
17:43, 17 August 2006 Christopher Sundita (Talk | contribs) moved Talk:Iloilo to Talk:Iloilo (disambiguation) (Iloilo will be for the province.) (revert)
17:43, 17 August 2006 Christopher Sundita (Talk | contribs) moved Iloilo to Iloilo (disambiguation) (Iloilo will be for the province.) (revert)
17:41, 17 August 2006 Christopher Sundita (Talk | contribs) moved Pangasinan (province) to Pangasinan (rv move by Tobias Conradi) (revert)
17:41, 17 August 2006 Christopher Sundita (Talk | contribs) deleted "Pangasinan" (Deleted to make way for move.)
17:38, 17 August 2006 Christopher Sundita (Talk | contribs) moved Cebu (province) to Cebu (rv move by Tobias Conradi) (revert)
17:38, 17 August 2006 Christopher Sundita (Talk | contribs) deleted "Cebu" (Deleted to make way for move.)
You are not allowed to use your admin rights in editing conflicts against another editor. Thanks for telling that you will not do this on the recent conflict with me anymore. You should not do this anywhere again. About the content itself: Me too I tried to find a good naming scheme. Maybe 50% of the PH provinces have conflicting names. The island of Cebu is much older and much more known e.g. to me than the province. So I would strongly favor having a dab there. This way we can better wipe out wrong links. All links to the dab pages should be reviewed. There are people in WP that fix links to dab pages. Putting the provinces to "X Province", "X (province)" or whatever forces the editors to be more precise. I agree that "X Province" maybe is not the best solution, "X (province)" may be better, because lot's of provinces do not need the dab. Tobias Conradi(Talk)20:58, 17 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
With respect to [2] and your preceding edits there, and with respect to your recent additional deletions I ask you to revert the deletions and stop abusing your admin rights. The input of other editors as you write, does not allow you to abuse your rights. Tobias Conradi(Talk)15:48, 19 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Christopher,
I am unclear in looking at your original entry for Bisakol whether you meant the term to include Masbatenyo or not. On Google, I find a lot showing the term is used for the Warayan languages of southern Sorsogon, but nothing indicating it is used for Masbatenyo.
I have a personal interest in this area, my wife and three children are from Legazpi City and one son's fiancee is from Masbate.
Mike
Yes, Masbateño is considered a Bisakol language. Sorsoganon and Masbateño are very similar. --Chris S. 06:40, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
Sorry it's taken me a while to get around to this map... I just keep getting preoccupied with stuff. :p Consider this current image as a first draft. Are the colors alright? Should Tagalog and Hiligaynon and Cebuano have different shades of gray, and labels? Image size? Font size? Don't hesitate to make comments and suggestions and requests. :) Coffee14:53, 31 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Chris, maudit tabarnouche! Comment ça ce fait que t'way t'appris l'joual?
Seriously, I'm an anglophone, and despite being born, raised and living my whole life in Quebec, my French and my Joual are embarrassingly bad. (I'm even ashamed too admit it, but what does "itou" mean when you said "Moé itou"? I'm guessing one of two things: "Me and you" (Moi et toi) or "Me too" (Moi aussi). Actually, my French isn't so bad, I'm pretty fluent, it's just that here in La Belle Province the standards are much higher to consider yourself fluent. If, for example I lived in Toronto my French would be considered perfect, even moreso in the US. Here though, I'm just another maudit tête carré!
Anyway, your userpage says you're from the Pacific Northwest. I'm assuming you're talking about the US, meaning you're from Oregon or Washington (no need to tell me where exactly, I respect privacy.) But if so, how did you ever pick up Joual? Did you ever live back east here in Quebec?
You must have an interesting story to tell. It would be great to hear it.
Hey Chris, I got your message and I'll definitely check out the article. I should have written back earlier, buck I've had a tonne of things to do. It's a holiday for me now (but don't take that the wrong way, my people's holidays are FAR from "relaxing"!)
En tous cas, j'espere que moé j'vais avoir du temp libre aussi tôt que possible, pour continuer d'echanger des idées sur l'Joual...à bientôt, mon chum! Loomis23:47, 1 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I saw your question at the hispano forum. In old latin maps, Luzon is referred to as Luconia. There are for example shoals of Luconia. I think this would be a cognate of Ilokano.--Jondel06:15, 21 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
There is currently not a single book out there to learn Kapampangan, so I am in bad luck if I want to learn it.
I have started a wikibook here to try and get people to help me write a textbook on Kapampangan. If you are fluent, please do not hesitate to help out!
Cheers. Lgriot08:31, 2 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Je suis impressionné par ton Français: probablement meilleur que le mien! Je vais faire un peu de travail sur le livre wikibooks:Kapampangan dans les mois qui viennent, je te ferai savoir quand il aura une taille raisonnable. Peut-être pourras-tu vérifier que je n'ai pas écrit de non-sens. Lgriot17:47, 17 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Ciao Christopher, sono Olando, sono italiano, parlo molto poco inglese, puoi aiutarmi con la pagina utente e con la wiki inglese. Capisci? Rispondimi --Olando10:05, 21 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Chris, I understand that self-identification with a particular ethnicity is important in determining whether a person’s article is to be placed under categories such as “Filipino-Americans” or “German-Filipinos”. This means that if an nth-generation German immigrant, who happens to be prominent enough to warrant an article in WP, does not identify with his German heritage (as has been quite common in the Philippines), he should not be placed under the “German-Filipinos” category.
However, what if his son—also well-known and with his own WP article—were to, unlike his father, identify himself firmly with his German heritage? Is the son to be placed under the “German-Filipinos” category while the father not? (The same goes with the Chinese-Filipino who no longer identifies himself with or has disowned his family’s Chinese heritage.) Of course this is all mostly hypothetical, but what if? —Lagalag14:43, 21 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I know of no German-Filipino community either, and most of the Filipinos of significant German ancestry I personally know do not even speak German. However, many of them identify themselves individually as German-Filipino, or have consciously come to do so. Though we can’t force people to change their minds, this leads me to ask: is this wrong? That is, is it necessary for a wider N-Filipino community to exist before one can truly consider himself N-Filipino? —Lagalag11:56, 25 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
How these people can identify themselves as German-Filipinos, despite there (to my knowledge) being no organized German-Filipino associations, I cannot say. Perhaps it is identification as, rather than with. A lot of people do that, perhaps even in your country.
On Filipinos with multiple ancestries, I agree, it does get kind of ridiculous to refer to oneself as “X-Y-Z-A-Filipino”, or to even refer to other people as such (let alone create such categories for them), as was done it the case of Batista’s WP article, where at one point he was described as “Greek-Filipino-American” (or “Filipino-Greek-American”).
As for Spanish-Filipinos, I’ve been thinking about it, and I don’t think they necessarily have strong ties with one another, or that they form a community by themselves. The way I see it, all Filipino whites and mestizos regard themselves as members of one informal (but well-established) community, regardless of whether they’re Spanish, Italian, German, American, or whatever. I think it has more to do with having a shared mindest or worldview based on common experience (not necessarily experienced together) than with being wealthy, given that the Chinese are not regarded as part of this community, who anyway have an exclusive community of their own. —Lagalag07:24, 27 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Come to think of it, I based it on Arnaiz’s physical characteristics and his surname. I could have been mistaken after all. Either way, I’m removing him from the category.
Why is my article "Euromalays" subjected to deletion? Did I write anything bias or offensive? Why is it subjected to such harsh treatment? I tried to put as much reference as I can. I just wanted to know why.
Hi Chris, I was led by links and links to your websites, and back here at wiki. Well, the reason I am messaging you is that I am trying to track an essay "Filipino modes of knowing" by Jaime Polo. Just checking if you have access to it, or knows how to access it. Please let me know or direct me. Thanks. --Pinay0606:35, 14 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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Good day, Chris. Through user Lagalag, it came to my knowledge that the article "American-Filipinos" and the category of the same name are being put up for deletion. As such, I sent the following reply to Lagalag citing, to the best of my abilities, the reasons why it doesn't deserve to be deleted:
Lagalag, before you make any motion to request the deletion of the category "American-Filipinos" and the article of the same name, please give me valid reasons as to why they need to be deleted. Otherwise, I don't see any reason to permit such action.
As we all know, Filipino-Americans, or American citizens with one or both parents who is/are Filipino/s by ethnic origin, do exist in vast numbers in the United States and even elsewhere in the world. But so do American-Filipinos, or Filipino citizens with one or both parents who is/are American/s by ethnic origin. They also exist in reality and in fact number quite significantly here in the Philippines and even elsewhere in the world as well.
Honestly, I myself wouldn't personally create an article or category or edit an article if I know very well if a subject or subjects concerned do not exist in reality. I have already read Wikipedia's terms and conditions and have personally made a vow to abide by it at all times. Creating the above category and making the necessary article editions are just some of my own little ways of making a significant contribution to human thought through proper education and information, and I do not in any way intend to harm anyone through misinformation by using this website. And if in any way I did misinform anyone though any erroneous or inappropriate contributions I made to this website, I hereby offer my sincerest apologies for my actions. I do understand and appreciate your concerns about my creation and editing of some articles and categories here, but I do hope you would also be able to understand and appreciate whatever contributions I have brought to this wonderful website for the benefit of all. Thank you very much.
After receiving my letter to him/her, Lagalag then sent me the following reply:
Hi. I can appreciate your perspective, having inferred from your response that you live in the Philippines and as such may be very much aware of how things are on the ground. However, please know that it was Chris S. who initiated the motion, for reasons he has specified on the CfD page, and not I. I only thought it proper to inform you, being the creator of the category. Best regards.
I have already read in the CfD section of this website the reasons you stated why you want the article/category "American-Filipinos" to be deleted from this website altogether. Just because there seems to be no consensus as to the existence of a particular term (even though it does perfectly makes sense) means to say that the term itself doesn't even have the right to exist at all. It's comparable to denying the existence of a particular word in the English language just because it is not in common usage by the general populace (e.g. such rarely used English words as abecedarian and funambulist). If you would order the deletion of the term above from the Wikipedia database, it would also be then proper to have all the other articles and categories of the same nature to be deleted here altogether as well to be fair to all the peoples of the world (e.g. Filipino-Americans, German-Americans, Italian-Argentines, etc.).
As I have already stated above, I have already read Wikipedia's terms and conditions and have personally made a vow to abide by it at all times. This means to say that I would never, ever attempt to submit any information here which I have no solid evidence of to prove its factual existence or vandalize this website for no reason other than pure malice. I do hope that my explanation above should clearly define the meaning of the term American-Filipino for everybody's information and personal understanding. Thank you.
P.S. I have read in your biography that you are also of Filipino heritage. I myself am personally very proud of my Filipino heritage and would do anything, even in my own little way, to enrich everyone's factual knowledge of the Philippines and the wonders, pains and joys of being a true-blooded Filipino.
--Pinoy Pride15:51, 17 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Hi! I just saw that you made the Cebuano distribution map. I am wondering if you can extend the same assistance to the above articles. Please let me know. --Pinay06 (Talk•Email) 09:33, 21 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The Eskaya just went through a major overhaul, and IMHO, the present form is all inclusive of all existing information on the cultural minority. The Eskayan will have a major revision soon, pending additional resources we are getting in our hands. The current Eskayan is mostly from The Philippine Leaf, and has posed more controversy more than anything...--Pinay06 (Talk•Email) 15:55, 21 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I will ask around re the DVD copy. I watched it both on big screen in Manila (perteng gamaya ra jud sa tawo) and also on DVD (just between us, pirated lang so dili klaro and medyo hanap2 kaayo) which has been passed around. I will check and get back to you on this. (BTW, do you get in touch with the Filipino community in WA, i.e., Vic Pineda, etc.?)--Pinay06 (Talk•Email) 15:55, 21 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Can I ask for your services in mediation between me and Pmgomez? He seems to ignore consensus and doesn't respond in a rightful manner, saying things such as "fun" or "See for yourself." Also, he doesn't seem to relent on replacing [[:Template:Infobox Philippine High School with Template:Infobox Secondary School despite efforts of explanation, and asking for his opinions (in which he'll respond with "fun," again). Hope you'll help. --HowardtheDuck07:02, 26 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
These are pictures of the Eskaya and their writings. Do you think we can link this to the article? I read somewhere that blogs are not reliable. Is that case-to-case or across the board? Please advice. --Pinay (talk•email) 18:06, 28 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Cris, the owner of the blog has helped me with the Eskaya article. He will upload the pics in commons once he gets permission from the NCIP or National Commission on Indigenous Peoples...The Eskayan article should give you a little idea on the language, but like I previously said, it still has to be overhauled. As of now, it is based mainly on Hector's The Philippine Leaf. I will check and ask permission if I can provide you with the pdf files of the language so you can take a look at it and maybe help with the Eskayan article? I am no linguist, so it is kinda hard for me...--Pinay (talk•email) 19:53, 28 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Hi! Just read your Salita blog. Great blog on Eskaya Chris! It's linked to Eskayan if you don't mind. I still haven't heard from Perez, so the link to his blog will wait, unless you think it is okey. --Pinay (talk•email) 02:03, 29 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, got your email. Sent you Perez permission re the PDF files. Sure, Chris, go ahead and write the new entry. Your point is very valid. As the papers say, there are many theories. And yours is one of them. Message me when you are done so I can read it, too. --Pinay (talk•email) 02:28, 29 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Hi. Yes I somewhat agree on what your talking about. Maybe you could show me some good pics/examples of what should be in the collage? Because I kind of don't like the one that we have on now, the pictures are unproportionate and it looks dirty and sad. Coojah00:21, 3 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
