Talk:Alexei Yagudin

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Untitled

I don't know the details so don't want to edit one way or the other, but if they are known, they should be inserted into the text, not as "Edit". So I've commented it out; it's still visible in the source, though, for anyone to fix. — Bill 12:55, 11 Oct 2004 (UTC)

The edit is still on the page itself too. The reason I think that it was added that way, is because fans keep taking things that are being said too much to heart when those same things change very quickly. There aren't many incontrovertible facts about this skater, so we have to go with what's either said by him in interviews and journals, or believe what is said in articles.

Coaching French Olympic hopeful Brian Joubert?

Edit: His hip problem was never the definite reason for quitting eligibility. He's also not coaching anyone. He's helping Tatiana Tarasova with Andrei Griazev, and advising and helping to choreograph Brian. Brian's coach was Laurent Depouilly, but the French Federation has dismissed him also. He's now back with his former coach, Véronique Guyon-Desgardins.

Yagudin is a "consultant" to Joubert, not a coach. True. The hip problem is a big reason, but not the only reason why he isn't skating competitively. --Pelladon 15:23, 17 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The recurring edit about Alexei's private life--

UNFORTUNBETLY, there are some trashy, ignorant, hillbilly people who live in Cleveland Oklahoma who think it is appropriate to post undocumented things about Alexei Yagudin and about whoever else they want to hurt. These disgusting people even post individual's full names along with their families personal addresses, which is clearly not only socially wrong but very dangerous behavior. The false comments of these social rejects can be deleted, and hopefully they will also be blocked from posting more to this board very soon; howver, in the meantime if the comments continue, I will add links from this page to personal information that these people would not want to become of a public nature. 20:52, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

The recurring edit about the hip and coaching

I'm sorry, I have a very persistent stalker who came here looking for something to criticize as soon as I wrote the first article. I don't even know how she found me here, but it's her IP and she admitted to doing it.

WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 16:38, 9 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

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External links modified

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Yagudin's recent comments

As Yagudin's recent comments have been widely covered, in both Russian and English sources, I don't see any problem with including a short sentence about that situation in the lead. Corwin2K has repeatedly removed that sentence from the lead, originally placed there by at least two other editors. I warned him twice on his talk page about edit warring (the first time when he was warring with the editors that were originally placing that info) but to no avail - he has not bothered to take part in a discussion. JimKaatFan (talk) 13:22, 16 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I continue to believe that a note about his transphobic comments should not be in the short description. Corwin2K (talk) 04:29, 19 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Your experience at Wikipedia is extremely limited: you have made a grand total of 16 edits to articles, and 12 of them were edit-warring on the Alexei Yagudin article. Given this, I find it unlikely that you have read or understand WP:MOSLEAD. The lead is meant to summarize the text in the body. As the Yagudin controversy attracted more attention from reliable sources than anything he's done since his Olympic medal, it has been covered fully in the body, and a one-sentence summary in the lead is appropriate.

Your terminology is also wrong, but again, that is understandable given your limited experience. The lead is the opening paragraphs; you are calling it the "short description", but that is something else. See WP:SHORTDESC for more on this. For the record, the short description for the Yagudin article is "Russian figure skater". It does not mention his transphobic comments. JimKaatFan (talk) 14:29, 19 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I took it out of the lead because he is known as a figure skater and why he has a Wikipedia article. Per MOS:LEADBIO, one shouldn't allow controversies to overwhelm the lead unless it deserves to be there. He deleted his comments and moved on and I don't see how why the controversy belongs there because he isn't making a career off such statements. If that changes, then my position will change too. oncamera _{(talk page)} 08:24, 3 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

December 2020 RfC - inclusion of 2020 controversy in lead

Should the lead include a brief of summary of Yagudin's 2020 controversy in which he called people who support trans rights "Earth's mistake" and wished for them to die? JimKaatFan (talk) 01:53, 24 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per MOS:LEADBIO: "Well-publicized recent events affecting a subject, whether controversial or not, should be kept in historical perspective. What is most recent is not necessarily what is most noteworthy". The controversy isn't noteworthy in the long term, subject has apologized and hasn't been in the news for any similar controversies. His comments also had no effect on his skating performance career in Russia. oncamera _{(talk page)} 02:08, 24 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, if the controversy deserved 88 words, then it is a WP:Recentism/WP:Undue action that doesn't affect his biography in general. (CC) Tbhotch^™ 02:19, 24 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support The incident garnered more news coverage of Yagudin than anything else since his Olympic career ended. It's still making news in November 2022. Scrubbing it from the lead is nonsense. JimKaatFan (talk) 02:20, 24 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It being mentioned in an article titled "Adam Rippon in his birthday suit plus four more reasons why he’s our favorite bday boy" is hardly a reason to include it in the lead. oncamera _{(talk page)} 02:22, 24 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Are you going to pretend that's the only mention of it? There's already 5 sources in the article that cover it, and dozens more can easily be added. JimKaatFan (talk) 02:38, 24 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Where did I say that's they only mention of it? That's the recent article YOU choose to use to support your claim that it's still relevant in the news. Vast majority of articles are from 2020. oncamera _{(talk page)} 02:46, 24 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

If, by your own admission, the coverage was "vast" (it is), there should be a mention in the lead. JimKaatFan (talk) 02:54, 24 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

LOL. Read my sentence again before taking "vast" out of context: vast majority of articles are from 2020. Meaning most of the articles are from 2020. It's not in the recent news anymore. It's not relevant to his biography and shouldn't go in the lead. I'm done repeating myself on this talkpage and only responded once more to clarify. So please refrain from taking my comments out of context. Thanks, oncamera _{(talk page)} 03:03, 24 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

"LOL" is not a constructive argument and your comments should be disregarded by the closer, as it's clear you're very into protecting Yagudin's reputation from any negative material in his lead. JimKaatFan (talk) 03:07, 24 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Read Wikipedia:No personal attacks. oncamera _{(talk page)} 03:21, 24 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. I concur with Oncamera's argument. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 15:57, 24 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Don't include in the lead (invited by the bot) One reason is that the lead should be a summary of the article and that would be disproportionate to put in the lead. Second, a (probably spur of the moment) instagram comment which he deleted and apologized for is undue for any expansion here or the lead. Third is the reason described by OnCamera. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 21:10, 24 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose I agree with the previous comments. This should be included if Yagudin had more such incidents. Iraniangal777 (talk) 08:27, 26 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per MOS:LEADBIO. Also, the section titled Controversial comments should probably be renamed since that's not in line with WP:CRIT. Nemov (talk) 19:59, 27 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I went ahead and created a public image section per WP:CRIT and moved that content and other endorsement materials from his personal life section. oncamera _{(talk page)} 20:16, 27 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per MOS:LEADBIO, not of primary importance to the subject. Ortizesp (talk) 19:50, 28 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. For the reasons oncamera gave. Scapulus (talk) 11:46, 2 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. The information is undue weight to include in the lead for a controversy which takes up one sentence in the body of the article. (per MOS:LEADBIO, WP:PROPORTION, WP:RECENTISM). --Guest2625 (talk) 08:57, 3 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose as this is undue. There is a small paragraph on it in the article, and I think that is enough. The statement has had minimal effect on him or his legacy, so to include it in the lead would not be fair. Cessaune [talk] 22:55, 22 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]