Talk:Bangalore

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by SL93 (talk) 23:53, 25 July 2022 (UTC)

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• Comment or view
• Article history

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• ... that the name of the Indian city Bangalore could be derived from a Kannada word meaning 'town of boiled beans'? Source: https://web.archive.org/web/20120505010927/http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/mp/2002/07/25/stories/2002072500270200.htm
  • ALT1: ... that Bangalore is known as the Silicon Valley and Garden City of India? Source:
  • Reviewed:

Improved to Good Article status by Kpddg (talk). Self-nominated at 11:54, 14 July 2022 (UTC).

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy compliance:

• Adequate sourcing: - n - see comments
• Neutral:
• Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

QPQ: None required.

Overall: I added some citation needed tags in places that were missing a citation, which need to be resolved. Earwig did detect some copyright concerns, but I think the other sites copied from Wikipedia. Z1720 (talk) 18:20, 17 July 2022 (UTC)
@Z1720, this was discussed in the GA review as well. Each statement (like XYZ is a franchise based on the city) has its own article , so it was considered WP:BLUE. Kpddg ^(talk) 10:22, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

I took a look at the statements, and I would not consider them WP:BLUE. Furthermore, BLUE is an essay, which means it is "the opinion or advice of an editor or group of editors for which widespread consensus has not been established." (WP:POLICIES). Since DYK articles appear on the Main Page, there are stricter rules about what needs to be in the articles, and thus these statements will need citations to conform to WP:V. Z1720 (talk) 13:17, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

I have added the citations Kpddg ^(talk) 14:27, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for adding the citations. This is approved, with a preference for ALT0. Z1720 (talk) 14:35, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

Thank you Kpddg ^(talk) 15:12, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

References

References

Why are we using an outdated colonial spelling of the name?

Should we rename the articles for Bombay and Calcutta as well? 192.34.130.239 (talk) 16:47, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

The official name is Bengaluru. The article should be moved. Manthara^talk 18:56, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 May 2024 (2)

Highest temperature ever recorded in Bengaluru is 41.8°c at Kengeri on April 30, 2024

Record high temperature in May is 41.1°c.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 2402:8100:25D9:474C:D532:AA0C:C015:A00E (talk) 05:05, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

No source for Mega City

The population crossed 10 million in bangalore and hyderabad but there is no official census after 2011. Statista un reliable source for Bangalore and Hyderabad. There is no official data after 2011 census in Indian citites, so only 3 cities qualify as Mega cities Delhi, Mumbai & Kolkata as on today.Ustadeditor2011 (talk) 10:14, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

thanks 2409:40E4:4D:CC6C:4C39:CE29:E23C:369C (talk) 13:05, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

Requesting move from Bangalore to Bengaluru

Bangalore → Bengaluru – Hello, I would like to highlight a previously closed proposal to move the article from Bangalore to Bengaluru. The last discussion was closed due to lack of evidence. The official name of the city is Bengaluru and is also the common use.

Below are the evidences. As per WP:NAMECHANGES

• https://web.archive.org/web/20120406020325/http://archive.deccanherald.com/deccanherald/oct82006/index2044162006107.asp
• https://m.economictimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/bangalore-becomes-bengaluru-11-other-cities-renamed/articleshow/45002333.cms
• https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/bengaluru/it-is-official-bangalore-becomes-bengaluru/articleshow/45000684.cms
• https://www.business-standard.com/article/economy-policy/bangalore-is-now-bengaluru-114110100927_1.html
• https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-29845215

As per WP:COMMONNAME

• https://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/energy-and-environment/bengaluru-used-to-be-a-magical-city-for-urban-ecology-but-not-so-anymore/article68805101.ece
• https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/britains-king-charles-on-a-personal-visit-to-bengaluru-6905225
• https://www.hindustantimes.com/cities/bengaluru-news/bengalurus-second-international-airport-kunigal-emerging-as-front-runner-report-101729240799715.html
• https://www.deccanherald.com/india/karnataka/bengaluru/south-bengaluru-likely-to-get-city-s-second-international-airport-3239145
• https://m.economictimes.com/news/india/mpox-cases-bengaluru-airport-starts-mandatory-monkeypox-testing-for-international-passengers/articleshow/113378881.cms
• https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-68509409

Please let me know if any more evidence needs to be provided. Manthara^talk 19:15, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

• Support: Manthara has listed many Indian outlets, and BBC, using Bengaluru commonly. Bengaluru is also now the common name in other non-Indian outlets, e.g. New York Times, The Guardian, Reuters, and Associated Press. The move is very long overdue. regards, TryKid ^{[dubious – discuss]} 05:47, 31 October 2024 (UTC)
• Support. The evidence is strong and the sources don't even qualify Bengaluru with an "also known as" or a "formerly known as". The common name has clearly shifted. RegentsPark (comment) 19:46, 31 October 2024 (UTC)
• Support -- long overdue.zoglophie^•talk• 12:36, 1 November 2024 (UTC)
• Comment - The most recent substantive discussion of this name change was in June 2023: Talk:Bangalore/Archive_8#Requested_move_20_June_2023. It doesn't look like the Google Trends have changed since that discussion, but non-Indian outlets may have adjusted their editorial policies. From a quick look, it seems that e.g. the New York Times uses both almost every time it is discussed; try to Google "site:nytimes.com bangalore after:2023-01-01" for example. Suriname0 (talk) 15:38, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

  Indian websites such as Hindustan Times are still using the old name at some places.

  • https://www.hindustantimes.com/topic/bangalore
  • https://www.hindustantimes.com/cities/bengaluru-news/bangalore-weather-today-aqi-and-rain-forecast-updates-november-3-2024-101730597407584.html

  Vestrian24Bio (TALK) 10:45, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

  You can check the count of new articles with the changed name.

  https://www.hindustantimes.com/topic/Bengaluru

  Even the article that you have quoted is using the new name. Manthara^talk 12:23, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support, for reasons listed by nominator and other users above (including WP:NAMECHANGES and WP:COMMONNAME). It genuinely seems like the common name has shifted in reliable sources. Paintspot Infez (talk) 00:23, 2 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support Long overdue, our refusal to use the new name is becoming embarassing as so many sources change their own usage. We should strongly favour the usage in Indian English-language sources per WP:TIES, and use of Bengaluru is overwhelming in such sources, as it is increasingly in other sources as well. AusLondonder (talk) 00:30, 2 November 2024 (UTC)
• Comment Is there any evidence that the WP:COMMONNAME has changed? The evidence presented so far is merely isolated examples of the name being used - and searching Google News, the systematic review I posted last time this was discussed appears to still apply, which ngrams also still shows a clear preference for Bangalore. BilledMammal (talk) 12:27, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

  @BilledMammal, Vestrian24Bio, and LindsayH: If you go by ngrams, you'll have to move Kolkata back to Calcutta and and Mumbai to Bombay; they still show the old names above! (zoom in the Bombay/Mumbai results to start for 2000 to see it more clearly, as they're close in later years). Similarly for Google Trends, they still have Kiev above Kyiv worldwide. Yet, that's not what we have for Wikipedia article titles. What actually matters is the usage in reliable and prominent sources, such as international and specially national sources (because of WP:TIES). They ought to be considered, much more seriously. regards, TryKid ^{[dubious – discuss]} 14:16, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

  @TryKid per this Google Trends report, Kolkata is the most searched and Calcutta only accounts for 1-3%. As per this Google Trends report, similarly Mumbai is the most searched and Bombay accounts for 6-7% only. Thus, Kolkata and Mumbai are the WP:COMMONNAMES.

  Just like that here Bangalore is the WP:COMMONNAME. Vestrian24Bio (TALK) 15:09, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

  What about Kyiv? This just shows that there is precedence to move the page against the Google Trend data. Manthara^talk 17:33, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

  I am also not sure how valuable your "systematic review" is. You don't tell us what date range they're from: if you've considered recent usage or all mentions from any period, and the surveyed newspapers seem to be randomly selected from various countries like Canada and Cambodia. Consider manually selecting recent coverage in prominent sources in India, and internationally prominent sources that consistently cover India. Automatic and broad sweeps of databases that might contain a lot of artificially generated junk, such as Google News, isn't helpful. regards, TryKid ^{[dubious – discuss]} 14:33, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

  Originally 2022, and today I've validated that the results still apply.

  The sources also aren't random; they're papers of record, and policy requires us to consider a global perspective. BilledMammal (talk) 14:37, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose: Based on the Google Trends report for last 365 days, Bangalore is the more searched. April 2024 where it had the peek, the old name accounts for 80% while the new name is only 20%; given the 4:1 ratio, Bangalore is the WP:COMMONNAME.Vestrian24Bio (TALK) 12:54, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

  How does search engine data outweigh reliable sources? AusLondonder (talk) 17:22, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

  Exactly! Search engine data is highly optimised for SEO. Companies and Media outlets intentionally use keywords to get more clicks. The evidence should be based on reliable sources not Search Engine data. Manthara^talk 17:26, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support It's high time that name is changed to official name. It is adopted in most of the places by this time. Like Prayagraj, Chennai, Mumbai, Ayodhya etc. -Vijethnbharadwaj (talk) 13:40, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
• Silly to say things like "long overdue", when it is clearly not an obvious change; evidence given by Vestrian and BilledMammal makes clear it's at best evenly balanced. In time, more than likely, the change will be completely the common name, but it doesn't seem to be there yet, quite. Therefore, against mine expectation, Oppose. ~ Lindsay^Hello 14:00, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose: per Google trends and Ngrams 2016-2022, both still shows "Bengalore" as more commonly used than "Bengaluru". Ckfasdf (talk) 14:46, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

  Again, irrelevant dataset that too is outdated by 2 years. Manthara^talk 17:39, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

• Procedural speedy close: The same proposed renaming has been rejected in 14 previous formal RMs. The last one was only six months ago, and nothing dramatic has happened since then and a few cherry-picked sources are not significant evidence (e.g., the second listed source is from 10 years ago). Simple statistical searches seem to show continued use of the current article name. People shouldn't be able to get their way by just wearing other people down with repeated insistence. Please give it a rest for a few years before trying this again. We shouldn't have to keep repeating this discussion this often. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 17:12, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

  Ever wondered why there is a repeated insistence? Because we live in this city and we know the ground reality. The sources listed which are 10 years ago are evidences for WP:NAMECHANGES. The sources cited are not cherry picked, I can cite more articles from reliable sources both Indian and International media outlets which is using the changed name. Manthara^talk 17:21, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

  To me it also seems a matter of respect. When a city is renamed, by a democratic government and the name is adopted by the people, why should we say "sorry, no I prefer your old name"? It's just disrespectful and condescending. AusLondonder (talk) 17:30, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

  Yup, that too after providing enough evidence. People want to speedy close this for some reason when there is overwhelming support for the move. Manthara^talk 17:35, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

  If you want to play the game of we live in this city and we know the ground reality or disrespectful and condescending you probably need to go and find another community to play it in. Here we work within the bounds of our policies and guidelines, and use evidence (as opposed to anecdotes/personal experience) to find consensus. Secondly, saying that [p]eople want to speedy close this for some reason when there is overwhelming support for the move is certainly not assuming good faith when a reasonable reason for a speedy close has been given (too soon after the latest [of how many?] move requests has been turned down); and i say this as someone not agreeing with a speedy close, though i agree that there probably should have been a moratorium on these requests. ~ Lindsay^Hello 19:43, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

  I am not playing any game, I was just responding to BarrelProof's comment on repeated insistence for the move. I am working within the policy. I have provided evidences based on WP:NAMECHANGES, WP:COMMONNAME and also the article qualifies on WP:TIES and WP:TITLEVAR. The last discussion was closed as the nominator did not provide any evidence. That should not be a reason for speedy closing this discussion. Manthara^talk 19:54, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

• Comment Per WP:TITLEVAR "If a topic has strong ties to a particular English-speaking nation, the title of its article should use that nation's variety of English." We should use the name most common in Indian English-language sources. AusLondonder (talk) 17:20, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
• Speedy close. This has reached the point where we'll need a moratorium. O.N.R. ^(talk) 17:22, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

  You can't just speedy close because the proposal is getting support. AusLondonder (talk) 17:26, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

• Comment: These "statistical searches" and "systematic analyses" that keep getting trouted out every RM are pretty much worthless. If Banglore is actually the common name, editors shouldn't have any trouble showing actual articles from prominent sources in India or Anglosphere countries that use Bangalore and not Bengaluru. Pretty much every single outlet that I can think of has Bengaluru: Financial Times, Bloomberg, Washington Post, and on and on. Instead of posting dubious numbers from aggregators with unknown data quality, can editors actually post articles demonstrating so from the supposed newspapers still using Bangalore more? regards, TryKid ^{[dubious – discuss]} 17:35, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose per recent mainstream media results which still use the older name.[1][2][3] Orientls (talk) 18:09, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

  The link for the Hindustan Times article itself says "bengaluru-news". Financial Express is using Bengaluru in the recent articles * https://www.financialexpress.com/sports/ind-vs-nz-3rd-test-day-3-new-zealand-defeat-india-by-25-runs-secure-3-0-series-clean-sweep/3655344/ Outlook Traveller is not a reliable source. Manthara^talk 18:16, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

  It seems Outlook Traveller is associated with the Outlook magazine, which pretty much always seems to use Bengaluru! They have it as the topic tag. All the links using Bangalore posted above have a listicle quality to them, and aren't serious long-form articles. TryKid ^{[dubious – discuss]} 18:30, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

  Outlook Traveller was not listed in WP:RSPSOURCES, hence thought it might be non reliable. Nevertheless, like general consensus it just shows Bengaluru is being used. Manthara^talk 18:44, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

  No, you're right. I didn't mean to imply Outlook Traveller is reliable; it at least doesn't seem to be at the first glance I gave it. It's a different brand using a different website, just being associated with the magazine doesn't make it reliable. I was pointing out that the "parent" magazine used Bengaluru, the Traveller article looks like AI generated low quality SEO stuff. regards, TryKid ^{[dubious – discuss]} 19:04, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support as per WP:NAMECHANGES, WP:TITLEVAR "Bangalore" and "Bengaluru" is same name, "Bengaluru" is just spelling correction, non Indian sources also started to use Indian English version of the name. The article Prayagraj also using new name from earlier "Allahabad" which is complete new name, unlike this "Bangalore" to "Bengaluru" spelling correction.RI talk 18:59, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

• Comment Adding more international sources using the Bengaluru name:
  • ABC News (United States)
  • The Age
  • The Australian
  • CNN
  • Forbes
  • The Independent
  • Mail & Guardian
  • National Post
  • NBC News
  • The New Zealand Herald
    

Also, as many users pointed out the page move should be supported as per WP:TIES and WP:TITLEVAR. Manthara^talk 19:30, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

• Comment let's not speedy close this – there's already enough discussion to warrant keeping this discussion going. A moratorium can be discussed afterwards if this doesn't pass.

Anyway, some pure google hit totals over the past year like I provided in the June 2023 discussion:

"Bengaluru" (normal google search since July 1, 2023) – 84,500,000

"Bangalore" (normal google search since July 1, 2023) – 99,500,000

"Bengaluru" (normal google search since November 1, 2014) – 190,000,000

"Bangalore" (normal google search since November 1, 2014) – 327,000,000

"Bengaluru" (google books search since December 31, 2022) – 16,600

"Bangalore" (google books search since December 31, 2022) – 3,070

"Bengaluru" (google books search since November 1, 2014) – 93,600

"Bangalore" (google books search since November 1, 2014) – 294,000

"Bengaluru" (google scholar search of 2023–2024) – 18,000

"Bangalore" (google scholar search of 2023–2024) – 21,000 (this seems to hit on a few fairly prolific author names)

"Bengaluru" (google scholar search of 2015–2024) – 68,600

"Bangalore" (google scholar search of 2015–2024) – 228,000 (same problem as the 2023–2024 search)

These numbers aren't the most reliable, and I don't find them too useful, but compared to last RM there does seem to be a shift towards use of Bengaluru; notably, the gap in results in the same ~year is a lot smaller now, and looking at google books searches since the start of 2023 (it wouldn't let me shrink the range any further) Bengaluru seems to be significantly ahead. Do with them what you will. Skarmory (talk • contribs) 20:16, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

• Lean Oppose for now, but we are getting closer to "Bengaluru" being common internationally. We may need a clarification on how much to weigh the "Indian English" aspect, as it seems to be more common in Indian English-language sources now. BilCat (talk) 23:46, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

  WP:TIES provides Mumbai as an example for Indian English, I assume that would apply in Bengaluru's case well. Manthara^talk 08:11, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

  Examples aren't the policy, hence the need for clarification. BilCat (talk) 01:31, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

  I know. I am just saying there is precedent. Manthara^talk 02:45, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

  It's not accepted as a precedent. That's partly why this article hasn't been moved yet. BilCat (talk) 04:50, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

  That's Intresting. Can you please explain why that wouldn't qualify as precedent? Manthara^talk 07:12, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose & Speedy close — We have been through this over 14 times already, nothing here persuades me that Bengaluru is a more common name than Bangalore. In fact Bangalore still remains much more common than Bengaluru — Bangalore is more common in ngram comparison,last 12 months comparison in google trends shows Bangalore as the dominant name, 7,280,000 hits for Bangalore vs 152,000 hits for Bengaluru in Google books, 1,020,000 hits for Bangalore vs 62,900 hits for Bengaluru in Google news. Even after using the past year option in the news search, Bangalore still got 45,100,000 hits while Bengaluru only got 26,400,000 hits [4][5]. So the argument that the common name has shifted falls apart. I would also propose a moratorium on making repeated RMs regarding this for a year, as it has always proven itself to be a waste of community time and effort.Ratnahastin (talk) 02:34, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

  At this point, it's not eligible for a speedy close. It's run for four days, and has genuine support comments. BilCat (talk) 02:41, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

  So, you will deliberately ignore all the reliable sources using the new name and rely on Google searches to come to an conclusion? Manthara^talk 02:44, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

  @Manthara: Perhaps you should stop bludgeoning this discussion and badgering editors who hold an opposing view point with these baseless aspersions. Ratnahastin (talk) 03:08, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

  You are the one not acting in good faith by deliberately wanting the RM to speedy close while there is significant support for the move. Let evidences decide the RM and not your previous bais. Manthara^talk 04:11, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

• Comment If Google trends and hits is the solo criteria for article title than what is the need of other policies and lengthy discussions? RI talk 08:47, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

  They aren't – the only reason I provided the hit totals is because I did last time, and it's worth looking at how they've shifted since. I don't think they're that powerful of a tool when the numbers are so finnicky. Skarmory (talk • contribs) 19:46, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose. Certainly not the common name. Just the name that the Indian government would like it to be called. Not the same thing at all. -- Necrothesp (talk) 10:03, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
• Comment: I have previously commented on this issue. Firstly, Ngrams cut off at 2022, and the very clear trendline suggests that "Bengaluru" must outnumber "Bangalore" by now, but that's not totally certain, so we must wait until certainty. On the other hand, "Bengaluru" is just the correct transliteration of "Bangalore" (Kyiv vs Keiv) and not something like a new made-up word. —CX Zoom[he/him] ^{(let's talk • {C•X})}
• Comment: The Google search results show a trend of decline between the usage of Bengaluru and Bangalore. I highly believe that the usage of the old name is to boost the SEO rankings of the sites and has very less to do with the common usage.

Date Range	Bangalore	Bengaluru	Difference
4 Nov 2014 - 4 Nov 2024	21,30,00,000	9,88,00,000	11,42,00,000
4 Nov 2020 - 4 Nov 2024	15,40,00,000	7,56,00,000	7,84,00,000
4 Nov 2022 - 4 Nov 2024	7,51,00,000	5,57,00,000	1,94,00,000
4 Nov 2023 - 4 Nov 2024	5,24,00,000	3,95,00,000	1,29,00,000
4 May 2024 - 4 Nov 2024	3,50,00,000	2,87,00,000	63,00,000

Manthara^talk 17:55, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

• I want to also point out the WP:CRITERIA, since it's a relevant part of move discussions and it hasn't really been discussed.

1. Recognizability – sort of what the discussion hinges on, whether people will recognize the name Bengaluru.
2. Naturalness – pretty equal, I think?
3. Precision – equal
4. Concision – equal
5. Consistency – other articles will follow this one

Doesn't seem like there's much of a gap, and it really comes down to recognizability/the common name/usage in reliable sources (at least for me). Skarmory (talk • contribs) 20:02, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

I believe it ticks the Recognizability box as well. Almost all reliable sources have already been using Bengaluru in their articles, which I presume wouldn't be the case if the name was not recognizable. Manthara^talk 20:15, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose. The suggested target is still not the clear common usage among English-language speakers. Celia Homeford (talk) 09:25, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Notifications

@Jayanthkumar123, RegentsPark, SilverLocust, Ortizesp, Arjayay, DieOuTransvaal, AusLondonder, BarrelProof, Necrothesp, Celia Homeford, DankJae, CX Zoom, Skarmory, BilCat, In ictu oculi, Old Naval Rooftops, Red Slash, Qwv, Vijethnbharadwaj, Ckfasdf, and Estar8806: Notify editors from the last couple of RM's. BilledMammal (talk) 12:33, 3 November 2024 (UTC)