Talk:Narcissus (mythology)

Comments

The first myth presented sounds suspiciously like the story of Psyche and Eros. Is someone here confusing them or was there really the confusion in Greece, too?--BlackGriffen

I agree, and I've never heard any indication of confusion from any other source. Here's a link to the Psyche Eros myth:

http://www.loggia.com/myth/psyche.html

and here's one to Narcissus:

http://www.loggia.com/myth/echo.html These seem to be consistent over all of the web sites I've checked. As "source material", the legend of Psyche and Eros is present inside Apuleius' The Golden Ass. -BD

I moved the legend over to Psyche -firepink

The flower paragraph? doesnt that belong on the Narcissus page rather that Narcissus (mythology)?

Jwestbrook 19:39, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

Personally, I'm not sure the move is needed, but Stevertigo brought it to Requested Moves, so I figured it should be talked about here. There's bad links in Whatlinkshere from both of them (here and here), but Narcissus (disambiguation) makes a good case for moving both into their disambiguated versions, and making that the Narcissus page. What do other people think? -- nae'blis _(talk) 04:58, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

I concur, and will do so promptly. —Nightstallion (?) 12:43, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Freud & Narcissism

It seems fairly odd to me that there is no mention of narcissism in the context of freudian theory in this article. Its a major psychoanalytic theory that has influenced contemporary thinking for the last century. Would anyone like to have a go at adding this? --81.157.78.181 04:18, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

jew  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.179.93.106 (talk) 00:15, 13 October 2009 (UTC) 

Evidently, it USED to be a disorder; however, not anymore. Here's an article by Fr. Ambrose Young, an Eastern Orthodox priest: “Narcissistic personality disorder, characterized by an inflated sense of self-importance and the need for constant attention, has been eliminated from the upcoming manual of mental disorders, which psychiatrists use to diagnose as mental illness….” See his whole article here: Narcississm by Fr. Ambrose Young (Theotokos Skete) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.87.226.146 (talk) 12:33, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

hmm...

This, a more archaic version than the one related by Ovid in his Metamorphoses, is a moral tale in which the proud and unfeeling Narcissus is punished by the gods for having spurned all his male suitors.

In this story, Ameinias, a young man, loved Narcissus but was scorned. To tell Ameinias off, Narcissus gave him a sword as a present. Ameinias used the sword to kill himself on Narcissus' doorstep and prayed to Nemesis that Narcissus would one day know the pain of unrequited love.

Are these two sentences meant to promote homosexuality? Because I find them rather disturbing. i got scammed 00:24, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Read up on Ancient Greece; they had rather different views on the subject. Personally I find it rather disturbing that you are so easily disturbed. Someone removed that part of the article, but I don't see why, so I put it back in, with additional sources. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Berry2K (talk • contribs) 23:07, 16 January 2007 (UTC).

" these two sentences meant to promote homosexuality?" Man, this is paranoia.

The original comment about promoting homosexuality should be given a page of its own, so that in the future people can look at it and marvel over how they ever evolved from such a shallow gene puddle. In fact contrasting that with the ancient Greek myths will leave them wondering about evolution full stop! Nina61.95.116.45 (talk) 14:23, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

A hotty?

In the "Ovid's Version" section, right after it says "As a result, Narcissus" the words "is a hotty" appear in the article. When I tried to edit that out, the phrase did not show up in the editor. It's still there after refreshing the page. What gives? 68.156.227.159 18:51, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Word Origins

The statement about the origin of the word "narcotic" is not precisely accurate. The relation is only indirect at best. The exact origin of "narcotic" is based on the english use of the root "narc-" which means pertaining to sleep. Therefore "narcotic" is simply a drug that induces sleep. This is also where we get "narcolepsy" from. Now it may be that we got "narc-" from the same greek word, in which case the statement is not necessarily incorrect - so I didn't remove it - but I just thought I'd point this out anyway. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.243.73.47 (talk) 04:34, 7 December 2006 (UTC).

Echo

Shouldn't anything about the myth with Echo be included here. This is thought to be the original version. Sodaplayer ^{talk contrib ^_^} 04:43, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

so where's the story?

The paragraphs on this page refer to the story, but none of them tell the story. It's brief enough, someone get it. (I'm at work now, can't.) Thnidu 21:42, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Possible Vandalsim?

{{helpme}} Somebody removed the entire Archaic Version section. Vandalism? They didn't leave any notices or anything, and didn't ask in talk section, so that's what it looks like, but... seems like it's not destructive enough to be vandalism. Second opinions? Eriryoutan (talk) 01:42, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

If someone's removed a section without giving reasons or entering into discussion, then you have every right to restore it. If they had a valid (non-vandalistic) reason, then they can explain here after you restore. See WP:BRD. Algebraist 02:17, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Cat in the Adage

I wonder if theres an connection between the Cat in the Adage who ate fish but wouldn't get his paws wet and so starved and Narcissus here who didn't want to disrupt looking at himself in water

Style

The part about Echo (mythology) was written horribly improper, the version in the Echo article is much more appropriate, so I'm copying it over. I take it, by the process of elimination unless its a fourth made up one that Echo comes from Ovid's Metamorphis? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.137.207.191 (talk) 12:50, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Narcissus - Jewish tradition

There is an interesting parallel or offshoot of the Narcissus legend in Jewish tradition. The 3rd century BCE sage, R. Simeon the Just, tells the story of a young man who came to him to terminate his state of being a Nazirite -- i.e., to ritually remove his luxuriant growth of uncut hair -- becase one day, while shepherding his father's flock, he looked into a spring and, upon seeing the beauty of his own reflection, was overcome by "thoughts prompted by the Evil Urge that would take me out of the world." But here, unlike the Greek version, the story ends with the hero's repentance abd return to a more normative, "centered" way of life. See Tosefta Nazir 4.7 and Talmud Bavli, Nedarim 9b. JC —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.69.136.191 (talk) 09:32, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Edits Please

This article needs some serious editing. There are spelling and punctuation errors in just the first couple of sentences. --Lindy (talk) 02:19, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

What's up?

Agreeing with last comment: the first section is so awful that it's incomprehensible. Please, someone who knows, fix this! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jahanna80 (talk • contribs) 02:30, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Months of accumulated crud. Resolved now. Haiduc (talk) 10:22, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

hi —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.48.130.2 (talk) 16:47, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

picture

can somebody put this pic instead of the one thats being used? the current picture portrays a modern european boy from like the 1600s. use something that looks more like narcissus would have looked before like this picture http://www.penwith.co.uk/artofeurope/waterhouse_echo_narcissus.jpg —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.48.113.14 (talk) 17:13, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Neuropsychology in the article

In the Hellenic Version section, someone wrote about a modern interpretation of the myth, saying that because the ancient Greeks didn't have widespread use of polished surface mirrors, that he wouldn't have had the proper neural connections to recognize his reflection as a reflection of himself.

Besides not having any citations for this claim, it goes against the frequently used "mirror recognition test" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_test) where animals who have not been traditionally exposed to mirrors are able to recognize themselves, which means cultural habituation is not necessary to understand reflections.

Lloydel (talk) 23:05, 28 November 2009 (UTC) Aaron Pischel Elliott

Someone needs to put in here somewhere that narcissism shows up in John Milton's Paradise Lost with Adam and Eve. For further reading I suggest Mary Nyquist's Gendered Subjectivity, specifically pages 115-122. further questions should be asked to me at wagners10@stcva.org —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.120.228.11 (talk) 06:55, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Bob Dylan - Licensed to Kill?

Did he really write a song called License to Kill? I'm pretty skeptical of that, and I couldn't find any mention of it in his article. Sheavsey33 (talk) 10:36, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Removing Dostoevsky reference

Until someone can provide a quote, or cite a reference, the claim that Narcissus appears in the writings of Dostoevsky seems unsupported. The mere suggestion that some "lonely Narcissus-type characters" appeared in some of Dostoevsky's writings is insufficient.zadignose (talk) 14:09, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Also, the Stendhal reference should probably be removed, but I'm not familiar with the material myself. Yet it seems from the quote that Narcissus is not referred to in the book, and we're merely dealing with a self-obsessed character. If ALL characters who show any degree of self-obsession can be held as examples of "Narcissus in Literature," we'd better extend this article to several hundred pages in length. zadignose (talk) 14:16, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

One million?

I'm not an encyclopedist, but the reference to 'one million versions' seems like false precision at best and exaggeration at the worst. Has someone counted all of them? If so, shouldn't there be a reference to back it up? Changing the term to 'Many versions' instead.

208.54.35.190 (talk) 16:15, 29 January 2013 (UTC) Tal

Yes, I think that was just a bit of mischief that had gone overlooked. Cynwolfe (talk) 17:27, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

Interpretation

Has anyone considered the fact that Narcissus' only crime was saying "No" and meaning "No" to prospective impositions? Does one not have that right? What was Narcissus' crime? Why was he so bad?

And when he falls in love with his own reflection, could this not be interpreted as him falling in love with an image of Self-reliance and absence of need (to impose himself on others)? This could be a vision of Utopia, if one takes the line of thinking further and imagines a world without the need to lie, love, be emotionally validated by external (manipulating) forces, fight, kill and die. He's kind of a Selfish hero to aspire to in a world of religious propaganda smearing one's Self as being a negative consideration; Heaven only knows what their motive might be for promoting Selflessness and Self-sacrifice. Ahem. Onward Christian soldier.

It sure seems as if Narcissus did nothing wrong but a lot of unattractive stalkers got offended that he wouldn't return their needy love (a desire to impose themselves on him against his preferences). To suggest that he was somehow in the wrong when all he did was decline to reciprocate love seems to suggest a position advocating submission to rape or conformity. He had too much class to enable their need of him; what dignity could there be in satisfying (for example) Echo's desires? Would you enable a mindless nymph (who can only parrot whatever you say) to lean on you? Probably not a good idea to let her raise your children; if you do. Goscuter1 03:24, 24 March 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Goscuter1 (talk • contribs)

I think you misinterpret the story of Echo & Narcissus here. It wasn't so much that he didn't reciprocate the affections of Echo & others, which got him punished. It was the WAY he let the ladies know he didn't reciprocate their affections. He didn't turn them down gently, he outrightly SPURNED them, & thus breaking their hearts. In Echo's case, she couldn't help repeating his words. She was cursed by Hera. This was why Nemesis (or perhaps Aphrodite, as so I read the story, & frankly, makes more sense, as she is the goddess of love) meted out punishment upon him.--Splashen (talk) 04:09, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

Narcissus only appeared cruel to the miserable, selfless leeches who believed they had an entitlement to emotionally molest him. "...a young man named Aminias fell in love with Narcissus, who had already spurned his male suitors. Narcissus also spurned him and gave him a sword. Aminias committed suicide at Narcissus's doorstep. He had prayed to the gods to give Narcissus a lesson for all the pain he provoked." Can you see the projected insanity? Is Narcissus really to blame for the psychotic suitor's imagined pain? Narcissus was being humane.

Romantic love is an exploitable emotional corruption that isn't biological. It simply does not exist in nature, where blind love is exclusively reserved for protection of helpless and defenceless young. Perfidious, inhumane 'mothers' reverse-engineered love to exploit their children for slavery and war. Narcissus rejected his suitors precisely because they loved him. Remember, he didn't know what he looked like until the end, so he didn't have Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Narcissists do not love themselves. They fall in love with the false image they project to the world, in shame of their true Self (which they suppress). Narcissus was healthy and sane. He loved his true Self. He didn't need to impose on anyone else.

What appears to be mean to a spurned woman is irrelevant. My buddy once told a girl he slept with to GTFO as her needy was driving him insane the next day. She burned his house down. I can't imagine why he didn't fancy her? She seemed absolutely lovely. Humane humans would put broken wretches like that girl down to let them Rest In Peace but we are not a humane species. "No means no", but broken girls are confused because evil women (who were broken as girls) purge their competitive betters from the field to protect Their Own exclusive marital and filial slaves from being 'stolen'. It's a 6000-year rolling purge of girls by women who mutilate girls' genitals and emotions (fear of competition).

Echo had nothing of value to offer because another woman had reduced her to being nothing but an empty, objectified shell. The reaction of Narcissus' spurned suitors is the Proof that romantic love = hate. Narcissus committed no crime. Needing love is the The Crime. Narcissus understood their evil. To Echo, he said, "I give you no power over me." Humans only need to control their Self. He runs away from her embrace and says, whilst running "May I die before what’s mine is yours." She repeats only "what's mine is yours." This is a myth serving as a warning about leeches who have nothing but their worthless needy to contribute, like an objectified whore leveraging artificially-induced desire into marriage (extortion). Why should men agree to a lifelong contract of obligated perpetual care for a woman who isn't willing and has no capacity to perpetually earn or deserve that care? Why should men care for perfidious, infantile dependants who don't want to take care of themselves?

Every sentient being has one job; take care of themselves. Broken, selfless women weren't doing their one job so broken, selfless men gave dependent women the future to care for. And now we don't have one. Goscuter1 05:19, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

References

Aphrodite

According to the article, it was Nemesis who took revenge out on Narcissus' pride. However, in the version that I read, it was Aphrodite who meted out the punishment on him, for spurning Echo. What he did was an insult to love, hence, enraging Aphrodite.--Splashen (talk) 02:52, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

Greek: Νάρκισσος, Narkissos

The story of NARKISSOS -- the way I learned it - had various, minor differences, BUT has always been about a young, GOOD LOOKING man who is put into position of HOMOSEXUALITY and self-loving instead of loving the FEMALE NYMPH ECHO! And HOMOSEXUALITY is the ULTIMATE NARKISISM!

In my youth, the term NARKISSIST was a reference to a HOMOSEXUAL in addition to someone who loved themselves!

And I use "K" and not "C" -- because if the source is the Greek == Νάρκισσος == than the NARSISSIM pronunciation is WRONG -- brought upon us by some cad who could not read GREEK!

Does not it make sense to ANYBODY that NARKISSISM is the right pronunciation? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Al.Qudsi (talk • contribs) 04:03, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

Please rephrase your comments; as they stand they're nonsense. Furthermore, the C is used because Latin does not use Ks, and as and later C was palatalized after front vowels, giving way to a sound that was first the sound represented by CH in English church or C in Italian bacerai, then a variety of other sounds that in French were variably reflected as CH or S of English sad. 'Narcissus' was borrowed from French, hence it having an S pronunciation. Anyway, 'Narc/kissist' has never meant homosexual in any standard variety of English, and beyond that, Narcissus spurned every one of his suitors, man and woman alike, until Nemesis cursed him to fall in love with whomever he saw next, which happened to be his own reflexion. Also, how is homosexuality 'the ultimate narcissism'? There are plenty of gay people who despise themselves, and it hardly makes sense to call bearers of self-hatred 'narcissists'. Furthermore, the Ancient Greeks did not disapprove of homosexuality; Plato even regarded it as ideal. The story of Narcissus being a warning against homosexuality makes no sense. Finally, if you really want to use the proper name, it's 'Nárkissos', not 'Narkissos'. You just seem to be some bigot appropriating a myth to further your own agenda. 176.27.216.142 (talk) 16:08, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

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noideawhatsgoingon like at all

So basically this guy fell in love with himself. 88.107.92.71 (talk) 23:28, 14 January 2023 (UTC)