Talk:Chorath

Hello Cbarbry,

Thanks for adding to Wikipedia. I see that your recent contribution resembles the following text [1] a lot. There is a policy here that all text submitted to wikipedia must be licensed under the GNU Free Documentation License. If you have written the original text yourself then this is no problem, otherwise you must contact the original owner and ask for permission. Did you do that? Sander123 14:46, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Easton Bible Dictionary is public domain

Portions have indeed been copied from The Easton Bible Dictionary. However, public domain material may be copied freely.

ok, great, no problem then. I see you added a link acknowleding the source, which is nice. Sander123 13:37, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Wadi Qelt

So I clicked on the Hebrew link for Cherith. Not knowing enough Hebrew to matter, after looking at the pretty pictures, I clicked back on the English link, and wound up not here, but at Wadi Qelt. The said Wadi flows past Jericho, a traditional location for the brook of Cherith. I see no link to Wadi Qelt on this page. I think there should be one. Rwflammang (talk) 00:24, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

A blog is hardly an ideal reference, but there is some interesting information on St George's Monastery at this location. Rwflammang (talk) 01:53, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

Cherith, not Chorath

Who can fix the title? Chorath is a Greek distortion, used by hardly anyone in English (check for yourselves). Makes no sense calling the article that way. Thanks, ArmindenArminden (talk) 10:06, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

@YaLindaHadad: I looked up the history and the sources indicated. This seems to be a topic YaLindaHadad got stuck on. Fact is, even the indicated sources either use "Cherith" (even such set by YaLinda behind "Chorath"), or use BOTH!!!, or more seldom do use Chorath, one among which is a Greek Orthodox blog... Blogs are usually not accepted as sources, and Greeks would of course tend to use Greek, rather than English versions of names, but we're on English WP. So, YaLinda (or any other editor), would you please accept the compromise (see my edit) and revert the article to its former, much more common name: "Cherith"? It's just about serving the user, no agenda, no ego, no nothing. Thanks, ArmindenArminden (talk) 10:36, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

@YaLindaHadad: & @Arminden: I painstakingly went through the references to see which was used more often. I considered primary to be listed without parenthesis and secondary to be listed within parenthesis.

"A dictionary of the Bible; comprising its antiquities, biography, geography, and natural history online" uses Cherith as the primary and Chorath as the secondary.

"Desert Banquet: A Year of Wisdom from the Desert Mothers and Fathers" uses only Chorath.

"The Discovery of Elijah’s Hill and John’s Site of the Baptism, East of the Jordan River from the Description of Pilgrims and Travellers" uses Chorath as the primary and Cherith as the secondary.

"The Origins and Continuity of a Hagiographic Habit" uses Chorath as the primary and Cherith as the secondary.

"The Life Of John The Elder And The Cave Of Sapsas" uses only Chorath.

"The Peraea and the Dead Sea" uses both equally.

"Literary Territories: Cartographical Thinking in Late Antiquity" uses only Chorath.

That being said the most reputable sources are the academic ones - "The Origins and Continuity of a Hagiographic Habit", "Literary Territories: Cartographical Thinking in Late Antiquity", and ""The Discovery of Elijah’s Hill and John’s Site of the Baptism, East of the Jordan River from the Description of Pilgrims and Travellers" which tend to prefer Chorath.

Just some added notes:

- It seems that when Chorath is used it is used as the wadi Chorath while when Cherith as the brook Cherith.

- St. George’s Monastery which is nearby is a Greek Orthodox monastery hence may be the reason why some users prefer the Greek.

- The name most likely originates from the Hebrew triliteral root of either כרת or חרת both of which are associated with cutting and engraving. I do not believe it is associated with the Jewish tribe. Yes, the tribe name comes from an equivalent root in Arabic حرث to the Hebrew חרת however that does not mean they are necessarily related. HamzaWahabi (talk) 03:33, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

@YaLindaHadad and HamzaWahabi: Check the English BIBLE translations on BibleGateway. More than 50 (!) translations, and not a single "Chorath" anywhere. None. It's still the Bible that matters, not the secondary literature.Arminden (talk) 14:16, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

@YaLindaHadad, HamzaWahabi, Zero0000, Rafaelosornio, Doug Weller, IZAK, and FDuffy: (& ping Athena, Borat, & Sophia, the Holy Wisdom). We've had this ridiculous situation for 4-5 years now. That should be more than enough. The name is relevant and in circulation because it's in the Hebrew Bible, in the First Book of Kings. If one chooses a specific set of books selected by one's whim, one might find a predominant spelling of ChAwrAAtH, or ALF might even prefer ĆĥǒŖǢț. Now let's come back to Earth.

1. The original Hebrew/Semitic name is Kərīṯ. Nor Korat.

2. For the most common English version search on Google: "Elijah" "Chorath", then "Elijah" "Kerith" -Iceland (to eliminate Kerið), and "Elijah" "Cherith", and you get about 800 vs. 39,000 vs. 100,000 hits, respectively. In spite of the Greek translation of the Torah, known as the Septuagint, where this pesky Chorath stems from. Good enough for any rational person. Please do see the light.

So neither the original name, nor its by far dominant English version corresponds to the current page title. Please do the only rational thing and move it back to CHERITH. Not in capitals, of course. We should quite obviously keep autodirects for "Chorath", and find a way for a redirect for "Kerith" that doesn't upset the Icelanders, who've got enough trouble with the melting glaciers already. Cheers, Arminden (talk) 15:41, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

Unless someone has a much stronger argument, this makes sense to me.Doug Weller talk 19:29, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

Wadi al-Yabis & modern politics

User:Arminden wrote in December 2016 as an article note: We need a Wadi al-Yabis page, and there is where this bit of modern political info belongs to, not here. For now we can leave it here, but just. [I - Arminden - referred to "According to the 1994 Peace treaty between Israel and Jordan, Israel can maintain its use of the Jordan River waters between the Yarmouk and Wadi al-Yabis."]

I [BobKilcoyne] have created a Wadi al-Yabis page, but for the present it redirects to this page. I agree with User:Arminden that modern references would belong on the Wadi al-Yabis page. - BobKilcoyne (talk) 07:36, 30 October 2017 (UTC)