Talk:Kelly Freas

Examples of artist's work

Did anybody even try to contact Freas' family for some permissions? — Xiong (talk) 05:21, 2005 Apr 1 (UTC)

I know the family reasonably well — I took those pictures at his last birthday party. Bearing in mind that Wikipedia is not an art gallery and a significant portion of Laura's income comes from residuals on Kelly's art, what permissions would you ask her to give us? ➥the Epopt 05:38, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Well, then, you are certainly the point man on this project. You seem to have two objections, both of which I shall address.

• This isn't an art gallery, true. But this article is about an artist. My reasoning comes in two parts:
  • A thing is often best explained by the thing itself. -- You can explain the concept of "grapefruit" by describing one with many words; better, you can show a photo of a grapefruit. Best of all, you may be able to hand someone a real grapefruit. Flat art -- graphic design, paintings, drawings -- are uniquely suited to direct presentation in a work such as Wikipedia. Try this: Read, say, the description of Seurat's Sunday Afternoon in text. Now, look at an image of the work. Which does a better job of informing the user? (Of course, the image and the text together are most powerful.)
  • The most important thing about a great artist's life is his work. -- This may come hard to his family and dear friends, but it is true, and not only for artists, but for many Great Men and Great Women. What makes such people great is not that they chose to brush with Colgate or that they liked to watch basketball on teevee. Except for performers, their personal appearance is generally unimportant, a mere curiosity. I doubt that most Freas fans have the slightest idea what the man looked like, but even the occasional SF reader must immediately recognize his style, even if unable to put a name to the artist.

Taken together, it becomes clear that the best way of introducing an artist to the WP user is to display examples of his art. Note, by way of passing, that Seurat's article is indeed illustrated with not only Sunday Afternoon, but two other works representative of his career.

• I should never desire to take anything away from Freas' family. There is fortunately a strong market for well-known artists, although I'm sure the little his widow gets is never enough. Do you feel that presenting a thumbnail image of two or three of Freas' impressive works would somehow eat into her residuals? That someone, somewhere, would fail to pay money for something, because that thumbnail was available on Wikipedia -- or even if it passed into the public domain? I don't know how much original art the lady still has to sell, but I will bet Cash Money that serious collectors who might consider purchasing, say, an original pencil drawing would not look twice at a thumbnail of an old Analog cover.

I would leave the question of license up to Laura Freas, since it is hers to give; but if pressed, I would suggest to her a dual GFDL/Creative Commons license applicable to a few 400px-wide PNGs of some of Kelly Freas' better-known works. For that matter, if she is unwilling, I imagine a few old Analog covers could be obtained from Dell, or even included in WP under fair use.

My bias in these matters is to try to obtain the artist's permission directly, and see credit given where due. In this case, Laura Freas should be contacted.

That said, I appreciate the personal photos; I am the sort of trivia buff who browses such. But frankly, I skipped most of the personal details in the text. I would like to see the man's work. — Xiong (talk) 09:13, 2005 Apr 1 (UTC)

• I used to chat with Kelly a long time ago at conventions and for a number of years he illustrated most of my Analog stories, at least while Ben Bova was the editor. I'd get paid $200 or $300 for a story, then buy the original drawing from Kelly for $50 or $100, I forget which. Then I'd spend $25 or so on framing it. By the time I was through, I hadn't made much on the stories. I still have 7 or 8 of his wonderful black and white drawings hanging on my walls but according to my understanding of the matter, the Freas estate owns the reproduction rights to these drawings even though I own the actual pictures. I knew Kelly's first wife, Polly, but don't know Laura.... Hayford Peirce 22:43, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

I don't know the terms under which you bought your illustrations, but you've accurately described my situation — Kelly did the cover of my first book and the original artwork now hangs in my office, but they made it very clear that the reproduction rights belong to my publisher and the Freases; I own only the physical object. ➥the Epopt 23:56, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

Well, my purchases were way back in the 70s and I was living in Tahiti at the time, so I'd just write Kelly a letter and stick a check in it and sometime later the drawing would show up. No one ever said a word at the time about reproduction rights although I'm sure Kelly was well aware of the issue. Especially since many of the S.F. artists were also selling their original paintings and drawings at the art shows at the various conventions. I doubt if he envisioned anything like Wikipedia at the time. Although didn't Gordy Dickson have "The Encyclopedia" as the supposed basis of his ten or twelve novels about something or other...? Hayford Peirce 00:35, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

---

Now that the year of mourning (a common Jewish observance) is over, I will approach Laura about setting up a gallery of the most notable of his works. Which ones would y'all consider the most important to include? ➥the Epopt 06:07, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

"scientologist"

Kelly Freas was placed into two "scientologist" categories. I was tempted to remove it, not because of any knowledge of the subject but because it was not mentioned in the article, and I don't think categories should introduce new information. However, I've since found page http://www.nndb.com/people/092/000085834/ "His widow states that Freas was not a Scientologist". The information there is interesting, and could belong in the article. Notinasnaid 16:37, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Work for MAD

I changed the attribution of Freas as Alfred E Neuman's creator. The image, as related in the Wikipedia enty for AEN, was "found" in old advertising material, and adopted to the comics in line drawing by Bill Elder. Norman Mingo did the first MAD magazine cover featuring Alfred. Freas' version, used early in the character's association with MAD, was great, though. Kevrob 20:35, 9 October 2006 (UTC) Kevrob

Appearance

When I met Freas in Richmond he told an anecdote about how we went to view one of the Apollo launches. While walking towards the large rocket and staring up at it, he failed to look at his feet and thus tripped and fell face forward. This is how he got his protruding teeth.

NPOV?

What is this supposed to mean "No other artist in science fiction has consistently matched his record." Whelan has 24/13 nominations/wins and Eggleton has 19/8. Freas has my favorite since I was a pre-teen, but this line doesn't really belong. Delfeye 20:08, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for File:Queen News Of The World.png

File:Queen News Of The World.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 11:12, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

News of the World Cover

Hi there, I've just deleted that image from this page. Please feel free to use it and add it again. Just next time can someone add a fair use rationale with reference to its use in this article, or it will be deleted. Cheers GiantSpider (talk) 17:02, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Science Fiction Hall of Fame class of 2006

P.S. The Awards section might benefit from some organization such as grouping career awards and those for specific works.

The Science Fiction Hall of Fame should be mentioned. Freas was in the class of 2006 with F Herbert, G Lucas, and A McCaffrey, so it is easy to find some coverage. Here is info that I have provided at George Lucas, lightly revised to fit this context.

On June 17, 2006, the Science Fiction Hall of Fame inducted [Freas] and three others.

Those are two references contemporary to the advance announcement. Among many google hits, those two have independent content. They provide inconsistent dates; AWN News seems to be correct.

Here are some references contemporary to the induction which may have supplementary or replacement value here.

• Dune 7 Blog by the presenter of Frank Herbert with text of his speech
• official program (evidently complete set of images)
• account of ceremony by a fan of Anne McCaffrey inclg some general remarks and photos

--P64 (talk) 20:08, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Go for it!  :) 129.33.19.254 (talk) 19:14, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

No, that isn't for me, at least not during winter 2012. In biography External links and sometimes Talk, I have worked half-way through the alphabetical list of SFHOF members.

I have revised the Herbert and McCaffrey articles substantially for their SFHOF membership, which is why I have this likely-useful note at Talk:Lucas and Talk:Freas. --P64 (talk) 19:32, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Cool, hopefully someone will find the time to make use of this! 129.33.19.254 (talk) 21:44, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

More than a year later I returned with the official ref for 2006 inductions. Now I say here that Freas was the second "Art" induction after Bonestell 2005. In order to support that point, two more official refs are needed, one for 2005 and one for pre-2004. I used them at Chesley Bonestell (and Ray Harryhausen and List of awards and nominations received by Stephen Spielberg) to provide full support for their status as the inaugural SFHOF members beyond writers and editors.

--P64 (talk) 19:28, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

"Dean"

Frank Kelly Freas, the "Dean of Science Fiction Artists" at Frank Kelly Freas Laura Brodian Freas Art Guests of Honor; but it also has been said of Virgil Finlay. Is there room for two Deans? --Pawyilee (talk) 14:35, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

I suppose so - it's not exactly an official title. 129.33.19.254 (talk) 15:03, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

The official press release for SFHOF 2006 inductions [ref name=sfhof2006] (replacing the Dune 7 blog, see above) says this:

Art

With a career spanning more than fifty years, Frank Kelly Freas (deceased) shall forever remain the "Dean of Science Fiction Artists." Having painted hundreds of book covers through the latter half of the 20th Century, this ten-time Hugo-award winner (the first to achieve that number) also contributed illustrations for NASA missions, numerous advertising campaigns and album covers such as Queen's News of the World.

So I squeezed that into one lead sentence with the hall of fame induction. The reference supports both.

--P64 (talk)

Kelly Freas

In what sense did he use "Freas" and "Kelly Freas"? Both merely as signatures on paintings and drawings? How do genre insiders use them and how should we? Is it clear the latter should be treated as a pseudonym? (Most flagrantly see addition to the {{infobox writer}}.) Anyway, should it be considered a compound surname? --a la Frank Cottrell Boyce = Cottrell Boyce, Frank

Points gleaned by this outsider:

• (See Authority links in the footer.) The German national library lists alternative name "Kelly Freas, Frank" (compound surname); the U.S. lists alternative "Freas, Kelly"; WorldCat makes him primarily "Freas, Kelly".
• kellyfreas.com may be an official website, as we say
• Some interview titles call him simply Kelly Freas"
• At WorldCat his 1977 collection is "Frank Kelly Freas: the art of science fiction by Kelly Freas"[1] --data routinely from the title page, iiuc

--P64 (talk) 19:28, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

I have seen some of his D&D books where he is credited as Kelly Freas - it might take some work to track them down, but if you really need it I could do that. 129.33.19.254 (talk) 20:06, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the offer. That will not help, given the evidence that catalogs provide. We need judgment :–(

External links. The JVJ Illustrators "tribute site" uses Kelly Freas[2] so I deleted 'Frank' from that listing. The Library of Congress reports usage Kelly Freas[3] and catalogs his works primarily under that name.("LC Online Catalog") ISFDB catalogs works "as by Kelly Freas" and "as by Freas" with the former a majority of all works.[4] (Some number of those entries may be derived from signatures in printed illustrations rather than from published credits.)

Should we call 'Kelly Freas' a pen name or pseudonym? That is ISFDB usage but I suppose it is not ours, for professional use of the middle name.

Should we move the page to Kelly Freas, which now redirects here?

--P64 (talk) 19:31, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

I would suggest an RFC to resolve this one. 129.33.19.254 (talk) 19:37, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

 Done No significant opposition since 2013, so moved page. --Orange Mike | Talk 23:10, 14 April 2019 (UTC)

For what little it's worth, I rarely heard of him called "Frank" until about the time he married Laura Brodian. I have a secondhand anecdote in which his daughter's fiancé called him Kelly. —Tamfang (talk) 01:24, 2 April 2023 (UTC)