Talk:Human rights in China

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): RiceStudent. Peer reviewers: Dnelson 14, 6ibberish.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 23:59, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Uyghur genocide has an RFC

Uyghur genocide has an RFC for possible consensus. A discussion is taking place. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. Mikehawk10 (talk) 23:41, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

Hukou system - Treatment of rural workers

In trying to verify one of the sources to support the group of the sentences below, I read the actual FT article and found no reference to Hukou, migrant workers, or rural workers. Instead the article talks about the fact that the employer, Longmay Coal, was suffering from heavy debt loads and had to resort to selling off assets in order to repay debt. This is not a human rights issue. This is an issue of failing companies burdened by heavy debt loads.

It is also found that rural workers have been paid under minimum wage to nothing at all. A group of coal miners in Shuangyashan were being paid little to nothing. With the families and people whom they had to care for, each and every one of the workers protested for the money that they deserved.

The link to the FT article is this -- https://www.ft.com/content/1f8519fe-e8cd-11e5-bb79-2303682345c8

Unless there are objections, this section of the article should be removed as it is not valid. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.148.176.172 (talk) 05:16, 19 January 2022 (UTC)

Copyvio removals

I have removed a substantial amount of copyvio material added by an UPE sock (diff). I understand a lot of it might be due in this article, so someone might want to review the removed sources to fill any gaps (but please, do not reintroduce the removed text as-is, since it was copy-paste and close paraphrasing). MarioGom (talk) 17:05, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

Human rights in special training schools

Special training schools are a special type of school in China, mainly private schools. They tell parents of teenagers that they will quit internet addiction and they tell parents of adults that they will provide jobs, but in fact they are frauds. Parents are deceived and asked to pay high tuition fees (at least 30,000 yuan). https://www.biede.com/survivors-report-how-did-the-texunxuexiao-work/ Most of the instructors there are former members of gangster and are physically strong. They pretend to be police officers outside, and under the pretext of being investigated, they lure, kidnap teenagers or adults and send them to special training schools to be imprisoned for at least half a year. Once locked up, they are unable to come out and are controlled by instructors, being cut off from all contact with the outside world and suffer all kinds of insults and infringements. https://www.iask.ca/news/439260# Moreover, special training schools are located in remote rural areas, surrounded by high walls of barbed wire, like prisons, and have become a lawless place for instructors. https://m.thepaper.cn/newsDetail_forward_1540331 The instructors are tyrannical, arrogant and domineering, cruelly oppress, torture and beat the students, withhold students' property. They are vicious,brutal and commit all kinds of evil, and do not treat the students as human beings at all. They treat the students as slaves and beat them whenever they want, showing no humanity at all. The instructors punish the students corporally from morning to night, regardless of severe cold or heat, and the students have no right to speak. There are various types of corporal punishment, such as standing motionless from early morning until midnight, running 50 laps along the playground, doing squats for two hours or walking the duckwalk for several hours, etc. If the students are physically weak, they will be beaten. The students end up physically and mentally exhausted and even vomit blood. The students suffer both physical and mental torture. If students disobey, they will be tied up, kicked, punched, or beaten with various tools. https://news.cctv.com/2024/08/18/ARTIjq41Ia4U5awvNCpsW5GU240818.shtml The instructors will even engage in a beating competition to see who can beat harder. The methods are extremely cruel. The students are beaten until their bodies are covered with bruises and bruises. https://zh.wikinews.org/zh-hans/%E7%84%A1%E8%99%95%E9%81%81%E5%BD%A2%E7%9A%84%E5%99%A9%E5%A4%A2%EF%BC%9A%E4%B8%AD%E5%9C%8B%E3%80%8C%E7%89%B9%E8%A8%93%E5%AD%B8%E6%A0%A1%E3%80%8D%E6%9A%B4%E8%A1%8C%E6%8F%AD%E9%9C%B2 Many special training schools even use electric shocks and other methods which are horrific and torture students until they are worse than death. Some special training schools have even been reported deaths. https://m.huanqiu.com/article/9CaKrnKefsX There are students' crying and howling inside every day, extremely miserable. The quality of life of the students there is worrying: they only eat vegetables and soup, eat sauerkraut almost every day, and cannot eat meat all year round; the sanitary conditions are extremely poor, causing mosquitoes to infest; the living facilities are also extremely simple, without any electrical appliances. The students inside all have dark skin (due to being exposed to the sun every day). They are sallow and thin, and are severely malnourished. The students' tableware is very dirty and often contains food residues, causing students to vomit and have diarrhea from time to time. In this way, they are tortured from early morning to midnight like slaves by the instructors day after day. They suffer huge and irreparable damage to their bodies and minds, leaving permanent lingering shadows in their hearts. Amidst this extreme pain and despair, a large number of people fall ill and suffer from mental illness, such as insanity or depression, and many even contemplate suicide. Students' most basic human rights, such as dignity, personality, right to health, and right to personal freedom, are all illegally deprived and trampled upon. https://www.voachinese.com/amp/special-schools-abusing-students-traditional-concept-advocating-authority-20230201/6943810.html However, the China's Education Bureau acquiesces in such school operations. Such schools seriously violate human rights, but they are not supervised and the public has almost no channel to report them. Jeff6741 (talk) 17:44, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

To put this (or anything) under the subheading of 'Torture' then you need actual WP:RSes, preferably academic WP:BESTSOURCES, that state that it is torture. Otherwise, it is just WP:OR. - Amigao (talk) 18:27, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

There are four actual WP:RSes that I've already put. According to your meaning, should it be classified under another subheading or not? Jeff6741 (talk) 18:41, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Rather than citing the sources all at the end of a (very long) paragraph, you need to make it clear which source supports each element of the material by citing them at the end of individual sentences. This isn't the only issue with the proposed text, but it would be a start if we could understand which sentence is supported by which source. Cordless Larry (talk) 10:37, 4 October 2024 (UTC)

OK. I will do as you say and make some modifications to this, not citing all the sources at the end of the whole paragraph. So could you please remove the semi-protection so that I could modify this according to your requirements? thank you! Jeff6741 (talk) 01:30, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

Please propose and gain consensus for what you want to add here on the talk page. Cordless Larry (talk) 07:42, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

I have already proposed what I would like to add on the talk page, and have received no objections so far. Hence, could you please remove the semi-protection of the page I spent a lot of time and effort editing? Thank you! Jeff6741 (talk) 09:44, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

My comment above is an objection. The text that you've proposed, including the manner in which it's referenced, is not acceptable in its current form. Cordless Larry (talk) 10:54, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

OK, I will improve it. But please remove the semi-protection first so that I can improve it. Jeff6741 (talk) 11:42, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

The protection doesn't need to be lifted for you to suggest additions to the article here on the talk page. Cordless Larry (talk) 15:51, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

OK Jeff6741 (talk) 02:49, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

It's only now that I realise that all of the sources are in Chinese (I thought at least some were in English), so I can't check whether they verify all of the statements they're used as references for. However, some immediate issues are that Wikinews isn't considered a reliable source, so you can't use that, and the final two sentences of your suggested addition aren't supported by references. Presuming the rest is verified by the sources, you need to strip out the evaluative language or otherwise attribute the POV. Cordless Larry (talk) 17:32, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

Because these are all facts in China, but China strictly restricts foreign media from accessing Chinese news, so foreign media have almost no chance to access such facts. That’s why what you see is basically in Chinese. Regarding what you said, I will delete the the source of Wikinews as you suggested. As for the last two sentences, I will add references. Jeff6741 (talk) 03:20, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

By the way, if you're going to revise the suggested text, could you post the new version below rather than editing it above like you did for the reference changes? That will make it easier for others to see the changes made (and the relevant guideline suggests that you shouldn't edit comments once they've been replied to). Cordless Larry (talk) 18:27, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

Ok, I'll follow your request. I'll revise the suggested text by posting the new version below rather than editing it above for the reference changes. Jeff6741 (talk) 03:28, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Special training schools are a special type of school in China, mainly private schools. They tell parents of teenagers that they will quit internet addiction and they tell parents of adults that they will provide jobs, but in fact they are frauds. Parents are deceived and asked to pay high tuition fees (at least 30,000 yuan). https://www.biede.com/survivors-report-how-did-the-texunxuexiao-work/ Most of the instructors there are former members of gangster and are physically strong. They pretend to be police officers outside, and under the pretext of being investigated, they lure, kidnap teenagers or adults and send them to special training schools to be imprisoned for at least half a year. Once locked up, they are unable to come out and are controlled by instructors, being cut off from all contact with the outside world and suffer all kinds of insults and infringements. https://www.iask.ca/news/439260# Moreover, special training schools are located in remote rural areas, surrounded by high walls of barbed wire, like prisons, and have become a lawless place for instructors. https://m.thepaper.cn/newsDetail_forward_1540331 The instructors are tyrannical, arrogant and domineering, cruelly oppress, torture and beat up the students, withhold students' property. They are vicious, brutal and commit all kinds of evil, and do not treat the students as human beings at all. They treat the students as slaves and thrash them whenever they want, showing no humanity at all. https://m.huxiu.com/article/393666.html The instructors punish the students corporally from morning to night, regardless of severe cold or heat, and the students have no right to speak. There are various types of corporal punishment, such as standing motionless from early morning until midnight, running 50 laps along the playground, doing squats for two hours or walking the duckwalk for several hours, etc. If the students are physically weak, they will be thrashed. The students end up physically and mentally exhausted and even vomit blood. The students suffer both physical and mental torture. If students disobey, they will be tied up, kicked, punched and beaten up with various tools. https://news.cctv.com/2024/08/18/ARTIjq41Ia4U5awvNCpsW5GU240818.shtml The instructors will even engage in a beating competition to see who can beat harder. The methods are extremely cruel. The students are kept beaten up until their bodies are covered with bruises and bruises. https://news.cnr.cn/dj/20240819/t20240819_526860268.shtml Many special training schools even use electric shocks and other methods which are horrific and torture students until they are worse than death. Some special training schools have even been reported deaths. https://m.huanqiu.com/article/9CaKrnKefsX There are students' crying and howling inside every day, extremely miserable. The quality of life of the students there is worrying: they only eat vegetables and soup, eat sauerkraut almost every day, and cannot eat meat all year round; the sanitary conditions are extremely poor, causing mosquitoes to infest; the living facilities are also extremely simple, without any electrical appliances. The students inside all have dark skin (due to being exposed to the sun every day). They are sallow and thin, and are severely malnourished. The students' tableware is very dirty and often contains food residues, causing students to vomit and have diarrhea from time to time. In this way, they are tortured from early morning to midnight like slaves by the instructors day after day. They suffer huge and irreparable damage to their bodies and minds, leaving permanent lingering shadows in their hearts. https://edu.ycwb.com/2024-09/05/content_52907691.htm Amidst this extreme pain and despair, a large number of people fall ill and suffer from mental illness, such as insanity or depression, and many even contemplate suicide. Students' most basic human rights, such as dignity, personality, right to health, and right to personal freedom, are all illegally deprived and trampled upon. https://www.voachinese.com/amp/special-schools-abusing-students-traditional-concept-advocating-authority-20230201/6943810.html However, the China's Education Bureau acquiesces in such school operations. Such schools seriously violate human rights, but they are not supervised and the public has almost no channel to report them. https://2017-2021.state.gov/chinas-disregard-for-human-rights/#CensorshipStiflesFreedomofExpression Jeff6741 (talk) 04:00, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

The final source doesn't verify the claims in the previous two sentences and doesn't even mention these schools. That makes me concerned that your other sources might be non-verifying too. Moreover, this text is still a long way from being consistent with WP:NPOV. I suggest that you ask for help understanding these policies at Wikipedia:Teahouse before trying again. Cordless Larry (talk) 21:01, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

@Cordless Larry The final source verifies the claim "the public has almost no channel to report them" due to Stifling Freedom of Expression as the final source mentioned. As for other sources, if you don't believe, you can translate them into English using online translation tools. Moreover, I wrote the text from a rather neutral point of view, representing fairly, proportionately, and, as far as possible, without editorial bias. All the significant views have been published by reliable sources. You can verify all of them. Jeff6741 (talk) 02:54, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Unless the source makes this claim about there being no reporting channel specifically in relation to the schools, it doesn't support the material you're trying to add. Writing that people are tortured "like slaves" and are left with "permanent lingering shadows in their hearts" is not neutral. If the sources use those words, you can quote them with appropriate attribution, but these things shouldn't be stated as fact in Wikipedia's voice. I strongly recommend asking at the Teahouse to get advice on how you can fix these and other issues with this proposed text. Cordless Larry (talk) 18:38, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

OK, I will quote those words with appropriate attribution, since they are all from the sources. I've already asked at the Teahouse to get advice. I hope you won't make things difficult for me anymore. I sincerely want to contribute to Wikipedia! All the information I provided is authentic and reliable! Jeff6741 (talk) 00:51, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Why have you been adding the text to the article again without addressing these concerns as you said you would? Cordless Larry (talk) 07:25, 11 October 2024 (UTC)

OK, I will delete the source which don't support the claim about there being no reporting channel in relation to the schools. There are sources using those words: people are tortured "like slaves" and are left with "permanent lingering shadows in their hearts". I have quoted them with appropriate attribution. I will make further improvements. Jeff6741 (talk) 09:04, 11 October 2024 (UTC)

Randomly inserted subheader

@Jeff6741: can you please stop editwarring? Thank you.

@everyone: quite a few of these sources are not considered WP:RELIABLE. We can't put negative information on Wikipedia, even if it is factually correct, without a reliable source (or 2, or 3). Polygnotus (talk) 02:55, 11 October 2024 (UTC)

Can you please stop deleting the content I added? It's absolutely true and reliable, with numerous sources available for verification. Quite a number of sources come from China’s state-owned official media and are absolutely verifiable! It took me tremendous time and energy to supplement this information. Could you please respect the work of others? Thank you! Jeff6741 (talk) 03:15, 11 October 2024 (UTC)

China's state-owned official media are, of course, not reliable sources in most contexts. And you use x.com as a source for the sentence: Special training schools are a special type of school in China, mainly private schools. But x.com is WP:USERGENERATED so it is not a reliable source in this context.

I recommend splitting one big wall of text in 1 edit up in several much smaller edits, so that it is easier to discuss what should happen. 7000 bytes is a very big edit, it is much easier to discuss a couple of sentences at a time. So-called "vocational training centres" have been covered by reliable sources: BBC & UN. They certainly mistreat Tibetans and Uyghurs and I wouldn't expect the conditions to be much different for other groups. Is Wikipedia:WikiProject China still active? Maybe they can help. Polygnotus (talk) 03:25, 11 October 2024 (UTC)

OK, I will delete the source for the sentence: Special training schools are a special type of school in China, mainly private schools. Because the entire edit is about this topic, it cannot be splitted. Could you please stop making things difficult for me? I also sincerely want to contribute to Wikipedia and show the truth about China to the world. Jeff6741 (talk) 04:31, 11 October 2024 (UTC)

@Jeff6741: You should check out Education in China, specifically Education_in_China#Training_schools. If you are just going to keep going without listening to advice you'll just end up blocked and people will simply move on. This project requires cooperation, which means that not listening to feedback is not an option. So in order to achieve your goals, you need to adapt. We are not making things difficult, contributing to Wikipedia is difficult. Polygnotus (talk) 05:24, 11 October 2024 (UTC)

OK, but as for the Education in China you mentioned, it does not involve the special training schools I mentioned at all. The special training schools and training schools are completely different. I support cooperation. After I edited it, I welcome everyone to supplement it. I have also listened to your advice and made modifications following your advice. Jeff6741 (talk) 05:37, 11 October 2024 (UTC)

@Jeff6741: Thank you. Have you seen Wikipedia:WikiProject_China/Participants? Those are Wikipedians who are interested in China. Maybe they can help you. For example User:Yue who has made ~69.000 edits. Or User:Remsense who has made ~43.000 edits. And whatever you do, please read WP:3RR. Polygnotus (talk) 05:47, 11 October 2024 (UTC)

Yes, I've already seen Wikipedia:WikiProject_China/Participants. But I don't think they can help me because they don't discuss similar topics. I've also read WP:3RR and will follow it. Jeff6741 (talk) 06:07, 11 October 2024 (UTC)