Talk:President for life

Untitled

What about Kim Il-sung, the eternal president? --Kaihsu Tai 10:32, 25 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Too bad he's dead (!?!?). This is not President for Eternity. He was never given this title while alive. --Jiang

Henri Christophe

Henri Christophe of Haiti became King; not Emperor. He just ruled the north of the island. Jean-Jacques Dessalines was Emperor of Haiti, but Henri Christophe established a Kingdom. That's a difference! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.221.202.41 (talk) 16:34, 7 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Banda

We now have two conflicting dates on when Banda declared himself P-f-L. Please verify. --TwinsFan48

The de facto section is a net loss. We know for a fact that Saddam Hussein did not become President for Life. How do you know he wouldn't have handed power over to his sons earlier to prevent a power struggle? --Jia ng 02:09, 18 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Any comments? I'll remove it... --Jia ng

Marcos

We have a little problem here...Ferdinand Marcos never proclaimed himself President For Life, if i am not mistaken. Martial rule would be from 1972-1981, and then he called for national elections which he won under very dubious circumstances. He gave his authoritarian regime some semblance of legitimacy by having parliamentary elections every 3 years. But never did he proclaim himself as "President for Life". Shall his entry here be removed? - Soup

Not just yet. I'd argue that a president who makes overt or covert constitutional changes that have the effect of removing the possiblity of him being removed constituionally (except by resignation) is a president for life. (This is my proposed definition). According to this a president for life may not serve until his death (he may be deposed or resign) and he need not proclaim himself as president for life. Now, does Marcos fit that definition? (Does Saddam?)Zeimusu 13:55, 2004 Aug 2 (UTC)

According to the 1935 constitution from which he based his declaration of martial law, as long as martial rule is governing a country, a president may not be removed until it was lifted. After it was lifted in 1981, he called for presidential elections which he won against token opposition, giving him until 1987 to finish his term. But when 1986 came, after the tumultuous snap elections, the EDSA revolution took place protesting the allegedly fraudulent elections. So consitutionally he was still the rightful president until the constitution was overhauled in 1987. We really wouldn't know if he was a president for life.

Fidel Castro

You don't seriously belive Castro's "renewals of mandate" aren't rigged do you Zeimusu? PMA 06:27, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Hugo Chavez and Fidel Castro are missing from the list of current presidents-for-life.

As unpopular as those two are in the USA, I don't think they fit this category. Chavez is legally elected (though I doubt he would voluntarily give up power if he ever stood to lose an election), and more than likely, if Castro stood in a contested election, he would win too.

And even that doesn't matter - this is not a list of dictators. - 11:26, 27 September 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.191.144.209 (talk)

Idi Amin

no idi? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.146.198.203 (talk) 06:29, 22 December 2006 (UTC).[reply]

There seems to be a new edit about President George W. Bush, which goes against stating predictions of the future as fact, and seems to be uneditable.

Julius Caesar

Was never a "president", and should no be on this list. His inclusion is inaccurate. - Izzo

Nor was he the first Roman dictator to be granted office with no term limit. Although he ended up stepping down voluntarily, Lucius Cornelius Sulla was granted the dictatorship indefinitely around 40 years before Caesar was.131.230.150.104 (talk) 19:34, 24 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Cite Tag

Is there anything in particular that the article needs in the way of citations? This has been up since Oct. 2006, so whoever posted it has seemingly abandoned it. - MSTCrow 02:42, 27 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Lifetime dictators/presidents, etc

Do you think information related to other lifetime presidency's/dictatorships, etc should be merged or related to this article in some sort of group / or amalgamation? It's a short article as it is... Example: SABDFL (Mark shuttleworth, ubuntu guy, wants to self-proclaim himself as benevolent dictator for life...) His SABDFL article was deleted b/c it was short, but maybe others feel it's related to this Life time presidency thing...

cheers, purpleidea (talk) 21:19, 16 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Does Francisco Franco belong here? And what about António de Oliveira Salazar? Cheers Bjenks (talk) 05:27, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think they were ever proclaimed as such, and they weren't presidents in any case (Franco was regent and president of the government and Salazar was prime minister). —Sesel (talk) 13:50, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Fair enough, they weren't Presidents, but neither were the Leader's given as examples of the Origin. I think all Leader's who changed the Law, or formed new Offices in order to put themselves in a position of perpetual leadership (whether it be Prime minister, Dictator, Chancelor etc) should be listed in the article. Proclamation and exact wording don't really affect the concept. - Jimmi Hugh (talk) 22:20, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Saddam Hussein

Pls also add Saddam Hussein. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.11.128.7 (talk) 16:50, 31 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Pope's and Venezia

Can we consider Roman popes and dukes of Venezzia Republic in this category? They are elected for life, although the title is different. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.65.173.25 (talk) 07:57, 17 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Monty Python Skit

I am sure I remember there being a hilarious line from a Monty Python skit along the lines of the title "President for Life often being tragically prophetic". Probably not fit for an encyclopedia, but particularly sage. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.247.163.112 (talk) 16:28, 29 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Yuan Shikai shouldn't be here

Yuan Shikai was emperor of china and not a president. If Yuan Shikai is on this list then so should other monarchs —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.106.112.18 (talk) 20:45, 9 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Actually Yuan Shikai was President of China, then self-declared emperor for a short time, and then once again president. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.26.72.143 (talk) 17:27, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

A new name to the list?

Kazakh President Becomes Leader Of The Nation at Radio Free Europe’s website.--MaGioZal (talk) 13:11, 13 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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Nazarbayev

Please add Nazarbayev--Kaiyr (talk) 06:29, 23 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

He's not one, at least by formal definition. He was re-elected this year, albeit under conditions that didn't exactly make for a free and fair election. A President-for-Life doesn't hold elections. John Firth (talk) 09:56, 1 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Franklin D. Roosevelt

The 32th president of the United states of America FDR ruled from the 4th of March 1933 and until his death the 12th of April 1945 breaking all barriers of how long a president should rule, effectively making him president for life, so he should be added to the list. Rphb (talk) 14:07, 16 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, Roosevelt could be considered president for life.--85.23.98.247 (talk) 21:22, 27 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

He wasn't president for life as there were free and fair elections just because he won 4 times that doesn't make him president for life עם ישראל חי (talk) 16:10, 28 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

One could make the argument that he was a de facto President for life as he was able to be repeatedly re-elected, which is one of the arguments in favor of term limits, that the incumbent can position himself to stay in office indefinitely. Emperor001 (talk) 21:05, 20 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

He still had a set term of office and, had he not died in office, his term would have expired and he couldn't serve any longer unless he were elected again.

De facto

Along the lines of my comment on FDR would it be appropriate to include in the list of examples de facto presidents for life, individuals who managed to secure reelection until their deaths? If so what would be the criteria? Obviously some presidents just happened to die in their first or second terms so I would not necessarily count them, but individuals who won at least three terms perhaps qualify. Another consideration would be how much of a challenge there was in the election as some individuals just win because they are popular while others win through manipulation thus the election is a constitutional pro forma procedure. Emperor001 (talk) 21:05, 20 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

By that logic we'd have to include William Henry Harrison Orchastrattor (talk) 21:04, 25 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Presidents for Life seem to be something specifically granted by law. Ones who served long and happened to die in office are different. Many legislators died in office after long terms, but they are not considered legislators for life.

Uganda's Museveni

Should be added to list, as we have an RS to that effect. – Illegitimate Barrister (talk • contribs), 07:42, 29 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Nursultan Nazarbayev

I am aware that Nazarbayev was never declared President for Life during his ≈30 years in office, and that he resigned from his post of President of Kazakhstan in 2019. However, on July 12, 2018, Nazarbayev was given the title of Chairman of the Security Council for life. Normally the President is ex officio the Chairman of the Security Council, but because of this change, Nazarbayev is still the Chairman and will remain in this post until death even though he is no longer the President of Kazakhstan. Through this post he still wields significant powers, for instance the President cannot appoint ministers (with some exceptions) without his approval. Should he be added with a caveat? 69.247.177.113 (talk) 21:02, 4 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe a bullet list of "similar cases" underneath the main list. Orchastrattor (talk) 21:05, 25 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I think we'd still need sources that are making the comparison? Otherwise isn't it just us claiming that the situation is similar? Or, I guess, since we're talking about a list, we could define inclusion criteria. DonIago (talk) 13:19, 26 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

OR: There's no sources for the list of past presidents for life

It's just a random list without citations. Can I delete it?Stix1776 (talk) 08:08, 1 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There are citations for at least some of the information listed, and given that the individuals are bluelinked, I think it might be best to check their respective articles and see whether you can pull appropriate citations from their articles rather than jumping to deletion. Do you have any reason to believe that any of the entries are erroneous? DonIago (talk) 21:13, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Just on the top of my head, Toussaint Louverture never saw political power, and Antonio López de Santa Anna wasn't president for life. It's also pretty SYNTH to make this list if no other secondary source did so.Stix1776 (talk) 08:04, 3 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think it's synthesis to include these people on a list of presidents for life if there are sources that actually describe them as such, which was the point I was trying to make in my previous comment. If there are individuals for whom there aren't supporting sources, including at their respective articles, then I would support removing those individuals. DonIago (talk) 13:52, 3 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What about Mao Zedong and Chiang Kai-shek?

Mao was president of the People's Republic of China for life, as there were no term limits for any re-election. Does he qualify into this list? Similar for Chiang too in the Republic of China. Joséthewikier (talk) 07:36, 21 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Do you have sources unambiguously establishing that there were proclaimed as such? If so, I don't see why they wouldn't qualify. DonIago (talk) 18:15, 21 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]