Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Irate/Evidence

Anyone, whether directly involved or not, may add evidence to this page. Please make a header for your evidence and sign your comments with your name.

When placing evidence here, please be considerate of the arbitrators and be concise. Long, rambling, or stream-of-conciousness rants are not helpful.

As such, it is extremely important that you use the prescribed format. Submitted evidence should include a link to the actual page diff; links to the page itself are not sufficient. For example, to cite the edit by Mennonot to the article Anomalous phenomenon adding a link to Hundredth Monkey use this form: [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Anomalous_phenomenon&diff=5587219&oldid=5584644] [1].

This page is not for general discussion - for that, see talk page.

Please make a section for your evidence and add evidence only in your own section. Please limit your evidence to a maximum 1000 words and 100 diffs, a much shorter, concise presentation is more likely to be effective. Please focus on the issues raised in the complaint and answer and on diffs which illustrate behavior which relates to the issues.

If you disagree with some evidence you see here, please cite the evidence in your own section and provide counter-evidence, or an explanation of why the evidence is misleading. Do not edit within the evidence section of any other user.

Be aware that the Arbitrators may at times rework this page to try to make it more coherent. If you are a participant in the case or a third party, please don't try to refactor the page, let the Arbitrators do it. If you object to evidence which is inserted by other participants or third parties please cite the evidence and voice your objections within your own section of the page. It is especially important to not remove evidence presented by others. If something is put in the wrong place, please leave it for the arbitrators to move.

Evidence compiled from User:Smoddy/Irate

See the talk page for the people that compiled this list.

Personal attacks

Irate's talk page

Irate's talk page (history)

[2] calling 198 an "idiot" & "childish".
[3] calling 198 a "pompous oaf".
[4] calling 198 a "fool".
[5] deletes the entire conversation with 198 with the personal attacks. (Though, to be fair, he did delete the entire page immediately afterwards, so this can probably be ignored)
[6] deleting something mildly critical, and calling it vandalism
[7] telling Sannse to "get lost" because he threatened to block him over 3RR
[8] telling Cool Hand Luke that he is reporting him for abuse of sysop powers re 3RR
[9] refusing to talk to CHL rather than file RFC
[10], [11], [12], [13] and [14] deleting things slightly critical of him.
[15] and [16] labelling Dr Zen a vandal
[17] calling Curps a "crtin" (sic)
[18] calls Curps "mad"
[19] describes Juppiter as being "far up your own arse"
[20] calls Smoddy a "paternalistic moron"
[21] calling a request by Matt Crypto not to make personal attacks a personal attack
[22] calls Matt Crypto "condescending and patronising"
[23] calls Violetriga "Vile Trigger"

Against Jayjg

Insults toward User:Jayjg: "ignorant", "arrogant", [24] "snide little gob shite", "manipulative", "without any value", "spoilt brat", [25] "dishonest", [26] "dishonest and manipulative", [27] "unpleasant toerag", [28] "self-righteous prig", [29] "self-serving", "apparatchik", [30] "bigoted", "biased", "hiding foul ideas behind pleasant words", "dishonest and manipulative", [31]

User:Jfdwolff's request Re: Jayjg VfD [32] "Yeah, he had a little poke somewhere else..." [33] Other users elaborate, but Irate makes several more insults against Jayjg until the topic culminates in this state.
When confronted by Jayjg with the statement that he has insulted Jayjg, responds "And what were those things, or is this just another example of you blowing things up to hise your racism?" [34] When provided with evidence, insists that "It can only be considered abuse if it's not true. You original message on this page, validates several of my complaints and you last message validates some more." [35]

Smoddy's talk page

User talk:Smoddy

[36] Describing Smoddy as "Shit for brains"

Template talk:In the news

[37], [38], [39], [40], [41], [42], [43] name calling again: "Vile Riga" is dishonest, arrogant and lacks integrity and sense
[44], [45] accusations of vandalism and destroying context after attempts to move the discussion away from that talk page and to user talk pages
[46], [47] accusations of admins abusing their powers and threats to come back under different ID/IPs

Vacuum's user page

Attacks against User:Vacuum. Irate added, "This user is a dishonest editor who does not care about votes or democracy. Noone should take anything they do at face value" to user's page three times [48][49][50]. When Vacuum asked why he was a vandal, Irate ignored the question by deleting queries. [51][52][53] "remove junk." Irate has to date never edited Vacuum's talk page.

Irate also refused mediation with user [54] [55].

The clitoris article

Revert wars and accusations ("Mr. Integrity-free")

Cool Hand Luke made a talk request about not insulting users on Clitoris [56] User replied by deleting "retard comment" [57] and making personal attack on user's talk page [58].

Reverted Clitoris 11 times in 18 hours, 18 minutes while ignoring talk page remarks. Was blocked at 17:06, 2 Dec 2004, but unblocked 23:29 becasue User:Anthony DiPierro was not blocked for his four reverts, and at least one admin (Theresa knott) didn't feel this was treating all parties equally.

First revert, 20:37, 1 Dec 2004 [59], [60], [61], [62], [63], [64], [65], [66], [67], [68], [69]. Last revert 13:55, 2 Dec 2004

Other revert wars

Argument with 82.35.37.118 (talk · contribs) about Liverpool categories, reverting many articles without full discussion:

All edits 11:20, 6 Apr 2005 – 12:11, 6 Apr 2005
All edits 18:54, 6 Apr 2005 – 20:28, 6 Apr 2005
Responding to Solipsist (an outsider trying to help) "I dont give a fuck about Wikiquette" [70]
Talking about a problem with an anon: "the same kind of fuck you arrogance" [71]
"I will be reverting all his stuff soon" [72]

3rd of April 2005 spree

3 April 2005 spree (all contributions between 12:35 and 14:34 on 3 April 2005):

Removing polite requests for him to comment at the RFC against him, calling people "liar" and "scum"
Vandalism of a user page, repeatedly placing deletion tags on User:Violetriga [73] [74] [75] [76] and creating Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Violetriga (and subsequently 3RR'd there) and User talk:Irate/sumtalk: "This user is a dishonest and manipulative peice of scum and should be purged from the system"
Similar vandalism of a second user page (User:Calton) [77] [78] and creation of Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Calton
Posts at WP:AN/I including name-calling and accusations

Abuse of user pages

As well as the 3rd of April user page VFDs...

On User:Jayjg 21:21, 22 September 2004 – [79]

Attempts at an RfC

There has been a request for comment filed against Irate, which, despite notice and requests for a response ([80], [81], [82], [83]) Irate has not responded to.

Evidence presented by Joe Dunckley (Steinsky)

6 April

Starting at 11:20
- Anonymous user 82.35.37.118 had modified the categorisation of articles relating to the city of Liverpool, which Jirate had contributed to, in order to standardise them to the system used by other British cities and counties. Jirate disagreed with the system and asked 82.* to explain why he was editing [84]. Jirate immediately reverted all of 82.*'s edits with the edit summary "vandalism", without providing evidence that 82.* acted in bad faith, or waiting for a reply from 82.* [85]. After 82.* had replied explaining that (s)he was standardising the categorisation system Jirate failed to keep his cool and continued to revert articles with the summary "vandalism".

20:20
- When administrators rejected Jirate's claim that 82.* was a vandal and removed his listing from the noticeboard, Jirate reverted edits with personal attacks [86].

7 April

Starting at 17:07
- Jirate edited 82.*'s user page to add an accusation that the user is "not trustworthy", which I blanked under the policy of no personal attacks. On my user talk page Jirate then accused me of implicitly attacking him and vandalism by blanking his edit, and then continued to add his accusation to 82.*'s user page throughout the evening despite blanking and requests to stop by several users including myself [87]. On Jirate's talk page I asked Jirate to stay calm and engage in dialogue over the original issue of categorisation [88], to which Jirate responded by accusing me of supporting vandalism, and describing my request to follow the rules as a personal attack.

20:00
- After discussing how to resolve the dispute in #wikipedia user:Ugen64 reiterated the call to stay calm and engage in dialogue. In deleting all comments on the matter from his talk page, Jirate described the edits as "vandalism by scum".

From 20:17
- Rather than engage in dialogue Jirate created RfCs against those who had asked him to stick to the rules.

Evidence presented by Thryduulf

Personal attacks

8 Apr 2005
- 11:16: Irate makes a statement on the main page of this RfC [89]. This consists of:
  - valid questions to the ArbCom (points 1, 2 and 3)
  - A borderline personal attack on the arbcom members (6)
  - definate personal attacks on the arcom members (4,7)
  - a question to the arbcom/threat against two users Snowspinner and Violet/riga (5). I am assuming good faith and presuming that this contains a typo and not a personal attack against Violet/riga.
    - Comment by User:Matt Crypto: Good stuff for assuming good faith, but I'm afraid it's not merited here. Irate has persistently and consistently misspelled "Violet/riga" as "Vile triga", even when it has been pointed out to him that this constitutes a personal attack. — Matt Crypto 19:30, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)
      - A witty and amusing one, but still... violet/riga (t) 22:29, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Refusal to communicate

8 April 2005
- 12:29: Snowpsinner comments on Irate's talk page that he has formated the RfCs correctly (see that page for context) and politely explains that if nobody else certifys them that they have failed and relisting them in that circumstance would be "unwise". [90]
- 12:31: Irate removes Snowspinner's comments with the edit summary: remove comments from some who should be blocked [91]
- 12:42: Snowspinner comments on Irate's talk page that "Although it's certainly your right, I encourage you not to delete comments from people you disagree with from your talk page. It makes it seem like you are uninterested in discussion or consensus. Instead, you should assume good faith. Snowspinner 12:42, Apr 8, 2005 (UTC)" in a new section entitled "comment removal". [92]
- 12:44: Irate removes Snowspinner's section with the edit summary: remove more unwanted comments by person that should be banned [93]
- 12:52: Irate comments on his talk page that "Mail from users who should already be blocked is deleted by antispam unread.--Jirate 12:52, 2005 Apr 8 (UTC)" [94]
- 13:00: Snowspinner replies: ":Then how am I supposed to make any effort at consensus or reconcilliation? Snowspinner 13:00, Apr 8, 2005 (UTC)" [95]
- 13:02: Irate again removes Snowspinner's comments with the edit summary: remove comments by user who should be banned. [96]
- 13:26: Snowspinner offers to be Irate's advocate on this case [97]
- 13:35:Irate removes Snowspinner's comments with the usual edit summary [98]
10 April 2005
- 17:52:Irate removes another attempt at communication from Snowspinner, 1 minute after he posts it. This time the edit summary is: revrt vandalism [sic]. [99]

Removal of injunction

8 Apr 2005
- 15:22: Irate replaces the temporary injunction at Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Irate with a message stating that he beleives the injunction is invalid. [100]

Evidence presented by violet/riga (t)

Attempts at friendly communication

10 Apr 2005
- 15:57: Matt Crypto attempts to communicate with Irate on User talk:Irate only to have it removed: "revert vanlism" (sic) [101]
- 16:03: A second time: "revert vandalism" [102]
- 16:05: Irate says that any attempted communication "will be removed as vandalism" [103]
- 16:11: "revert vandlism" (sic) [104]
- 16:15: A fourth time: "revert vandalism" [105]

Evidence presented by Jirate

Comments mad by Arbcomm

Jirate Yuo own me an explanation

Grunt For what? The Injunction against you?

Jirate Well you still owe it to me.

Grunt Okay, sure.

Grunt How about: Making large number of personal attacks?

Grunt I can get you a large number of diffs if you want them.

Grunt I'm sure the rest of the arbcom is more than happy to oblige, as well.

Jirate What about the people who make them against me like snowspinner and Violet Riga

Jirate No thay have shut up.

Grunt You're more than welcome to provide diffs at the evidence page.

Jirate I want to put RFC in against them an the other liars but you have banned me from that

Grunt You're not helping your cause by engaging in more personal attacks here, you know.

Jirate What personal attack, you have abnned me. I am logging this

Grunt If I were you, I would calm yourself down and maybe take a break for a few days... you might come back with a clearer head and not be inclined to attack everyone in sight.

Jirate That is is a personal attack by you on me. I have asked you questions and you refuse to answer. If I go of and accuse you of being stupid and therefore incapable of dealing with the situation you'll calss that as personall.

Jirate but you proabley don't think yuo attack was.

Grunt What, exactly, am I not answering? And yes, doing what you just said would normally be considered by the community to be an attack.

Jirate Then why isn't you Not calm not clear headed an attack?

Grunt I'm merely stating what I see based on some of the evidence that's been provided in the case.

Jirate So if I say your stupid and say it's based on the evidence of this conversation you will not have a problem?

Grunt The community generally agrees that saying someone is "stupid" cannot be verified by objective fact and would be considered a personal attack.

Grunt If, however, you were to make statement about, say, not taking evidence into account and give objective examples of evidence you don't think is being taken into account, that would not be considered a personal attack.

Jirate If think you'll find that stupid can be verfied far more easily than not being calm or clear headed.

Grunt Actually, it's not.

Grunt And if you'll excuse me, I need to be somewhere else for the next bit.

Grunt I'll be happy to resume this conversation when I return.

Jirate It's not what.

End from alleged arbcommer

Irate stated for the record:

> You still owe me an explnation.

I disagree. But feel free to calculate interest to this alleged debt

while you try to collect it.

--

Sean Barrett | It is a mark of insincerity of purpose to spend

sean@epoptic.com | one's time in looking for the sacred Emperor

| in the low-class tea-shops. --Ernest Bramah

--Jirate 14:53, 2005 Apr 10 (UTC)

Yet one more

Jirate Your there now you can answer some questions

DavidGerard your case is being discussed by the AC, including your previous IRC conversation with Grunt.

Jirate MEaning you are going to displine grunt?

DavidGerard your case is being discussed by the AC.

Jirate So why did you bing in Grunt?

DavidGerard I'm not going to discuss this with you in irc. Ignoring now.

Jirate I think that is typical of you people, no integrity.

--Jirate 17:56, 2005 Apr 10 (UTC)

More crap I have to put up with

Known Networks  	ChatZilla error 	Connected Networks 	<none>
URL  irc://foo/bar 	Not Connected 	Lag 	<unknown>
URL  irc://irc.freenode.net/wikipedia 	Mode 	<unknown> 	Users 	<unknown>
Topic  <unknown>
URL  irc://foo/bar 	Connected via 	<none>
<none>
<none>
URL  irc://foo/bar 	Connected to 	<none>
<none>
File  	Progress 	<unknown>

#wikipedia
[INFO]	Channel view for ¿#wikipedia¿ opened.
[INFO]	Now logging to <file:///e:/Documents%20and%20Settings/johnb/Application%20Data/Mozilla/Firefox/Profiles/nqbt16xz.default/chatzilla/logs/irc.freenode.net/channels/%23wikipedia.2005-04-10.log>.
===	*** Your host is kornbluth.freenode.net[kornbluth.freenode.net/6667], running version dancer-ircd-1.0.35
=-=	User mode for Jirate is now +i
-->|	YOU have joined #wikipedia
=-=	Topic for #wikipedia is ¿Status: Up. | Check out the new Lucene search engine | Wikipedia:Sound/list - help yourself to hundreds of free songs | Microsoft Encarta is going kinda-wiki/almost-wiki - http://spaces.msn.com/members/Encarta/ | Wikipedia officially replaced with http://uncyclopedia.org/ | Uncyclopedia officially replaced with uncycleopedia.org | <hush>pie is exactly three, pass it along!</hush>¿
=-=	Topic for #wikipedia was set by avar on 10 April 2005 15:02:03
Sponge	towo: you talking to me?
Hemanshu	aha
towo	Sponge: Yes. ;)
Hemanshu	I wish I could write for Uncyclopedia but turns out I am not that creative :)
Hemanshu	or funny
towo	http://bash.org/?487185
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Hemanshu	http://www.uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Autofellatio is a gem
SPUI	http://www.copyright.org.au/pdf/acc/InfoSheets/G023.pdf looks useful
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Duesentrieb	blankfaze: i'll just leave the WW I pics tagged as unknown/copyrighted for now. Add comments to the desciption pages if you like, maybe someone comes along and as a clearer idea about this. Typically, the image will ne be deleted untill in a feww weeks.
SPUI	looks like government stuff before 1955 is pd
blankfaze	SPUI: yeah, I'm reading Australia's 1968 Copyright Act right now
Sponge	towo: sorry, when I'm ranting my typing goes ot shit... and you'll note all the letters are there, just spaces get in prematurely. :)
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towo	Sponge: Or you double them, and the double letters are seperated by spaces.
blankfaze	ahh i hate loading pdfs\
===	etnoY <~etnoy@227.236.216.81.vs.vf.siwnet.net> ¿Jonathan Fors¿
===	etnoY: member of #wikipedia
===	etnoY: attached to irc.freenode.net ¿http://freenode.net/¿
===	etnoY: idle for 1 days, 11 hours, 36 minutes, 58 seconds (on since 06 April 2005 13:34:46)
---	End of WHOIS information for etnoY.
Hemanshu	why is it so difficult to be funny when you try to write something funny from scratch? :)
Raul654	Pdfs suck
Sponge	towo: no... of fmy is off my not of my.
Raul654	my compilers professor insists on giving assignments in PDF format
blankfaze	Duesentrieb: I think I have good news :-)
SPUI	haha, they specifically say that a computer program is pd if the creator died before 1955
towo	Sponge: Indeed.
Raul654	I emailed him asking him if, in the future, he could do it in html or text or ANYTHING better
Submarine	Raul654, He perhaps typesets them in LaTeX.
bish	Hemanshu: write the wiki way, a funny stub that others can add to
Raul654	Sub - nope
Hemanshu	right
Raul654	nothing special in the typesetting
Hemanshu	or a serious article people can make funny ;)
Raul654	Anyway, I sent him a link here -- http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20030714.html
Nigelenki	hey raul
Nigelenki	is L2 cache obsolete yet?
Raul654	Hi Nigelinski
Nigelenki	because like
blankfaze	Duesentrieb: This thing I'm looking at says State, Territory, and Commonwealth-owned copyrights expire in Australia 50 years after creation
Sponge	never!
Raul654	Nigel - Nope
Nigelenki	my L2 cache can be accessed at about 4000K/s
blankfaze	thanks, SPUI
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Nigelenki	but my main memory can be accessed at like 1100K/s
bish	Hemanshu: the stub method is quite inspirational, mine ended up on the Main Page
Nigelenki	which is about a quarter of the speed
Hemanshu	bish: which one?
Duesentrieb	blankfaze: if that's true, just re-tag the images and add a comment about the Autrailan copyright rules.
Raul654	The project I am working on, BlueGene, it has about 5 levels of cache
Nigelenki	and with a 1600MHz FSB and RIMM2, they should be able to make that main memory as fast or faster as my L2
bish	European toilet paper holder
Raul654	erm, not cache, memory
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Hemanshu	k
Nigelenki	raul: on the CPU dude
Raul654	Right
Duesentrieb	blankfaze: It would be good if you could write a short summary on your user page or such and link to it - and post a link to my talk page, too.
Nigelenki	but L1 is like 16000K/s, so very fast
Nigelenki	but I'm thinking
Raul654	The CPUs have cache, and externally they have SRAM and DRAM
Raul654	I can't remember how much of each
Nigelenki	back in the day, L1 was like a billion times faster than the 16MHz and 33MHz EDO wasn't it?
Duesentrieb	blankfaze: We need a place on the commons to collect such info - it's just not there yet, COmmons:License policy is a mess.
Raul654	but for a small (75 processor) system, I think it was in the neighborhood of 75 gigs
Nigelenki	now it's about 16 times faster
Sponge	Nigelenki: access rate isn't measured in b/s it's measured in time or clock cycles...
NullC	wee.. the joy of highly nonflat memory arches.
blankfaze	Duesentrieb: A summary of what
Sponge	Nigelenki: apples and kumquats...
Nigelenki	Sponge: b/s is data over time o.o
brian0918	raul did you see my new tfa request
Raul654	"A supercomputer is a device to turn a computation bound problem into a memory bound problem"
Duesentrieb	blankfaze: a summary of what you found out about Australian crown-copyright
Sponge	Nigelenki: right, but l1 and l2 are benched in terms of latency... how many cycles to load instructions and retrieve instructions.
Duesentrieb	so you can just link to it from the image description pages
NullC	Nigelenki: It's more of a matter of latency.
Raul654	Brian - yes, galveston hurricane is scheduled for the 24th
Nigelenki	Sponge: right, but doesn't L2 get faulted into L1, ratehr than used directly?
NullC	And latency very quickly becomes a speed of light in media problem at these clockrates.
Raul654	I was already going to schedule it before you made the request
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aib	raul654, what's a dupercomputer?
Nigelenki	also
Raul654	Aib - the source of my funding :)
Sponge	Nigelenki: no.. l1 can store instructions and l2 can store variables.
blankfaze	Duesentrieb: why not just put it ON the image pages?
Nigelenki	entire pages are cached
Nigelenki	Sponge: ah
tabot2	I need some help with my WinXP box... It seems that I cannot right click the desktop and all the icons have disappeared, when I make a new account on the computer and log in then everything works... How do I fix my main account?
Nigelenki	Sponge: normally an entire memory page is put in cache right?
NullC	Nigelenki: depends on if the arch uses exclusive caching if data becomes dupled between levels.
Sponge	Nigelenki: l2 is also used with the branch predictor too.
Nigelenki	yeah
Nigelenki	but next question comes to be
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Sponge	Nigelenki: no, l1 cache is machine language instructions.
Duesentrieb	blankfaze: because you have to repeat it, and i won't find it any more. The point is: best would be to have a central page on the commons to collect such stuff... I'm trying to find one, mompl
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Nigelenki	Sponge: a page tends to be data or code, not both
SPUI	oh sheesh http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wp:ifd#April_10
Raul654	The problem is, supercomputing is about the worst buisness model in the world - other than cray, everyone has gone bankrupt
NullC	Sponge: on what arch? lots of arches will gladly store data in l1.
Raul654	and cray has never really done great
NullC	Many arches have split instruction / data l1s.
Nigelenki	Sponge: machine instructions include their data; MOV %eax,3 includes %eax and 3 in the instruction, technically, right?
blankfaze	Duesentrieb: um, ok, well tell me where to put it an I shall...
Sponge	Nigelenki: technically.
NullC	Raul654: well it only does only when they can con th government into shovling money at them... :)
Nigelenki	Sponge: then? :)
Raul654	NullC - hush. I'm a recipient of that 'conned' money ;)
Sponge	Nigelenki: it's not "paged" though... it's whatever fits sequentially. :)
Nigelenki	Sponge: I was told though taht processors tend to cache the entire page (normally 4k) when it's faulted into cache
NullC	Raul654: I noticed above. :)
Nigelenki	Sponge: this isn't true?
Raul654	so when I'm around, 'dun trashtalk the people signing my check
Raul654	:P
NullC	Raul654: It's not a bad thing. :)
Sponge	Nigelenki: maybe by the branch predictor, but that'd put it into l2 cache, l1 is for stuff that is 100% definately going to be executed last I checked.
Duesentrieb	blankfaze: please put it on Commons:Licensing in a new section ("Australian copyright" or some such) - that page is a mess right now, I hope to clean it up soon.
blankfaze	Duesentrieb: it's only two images saved, but eh
blankfaze	Duesentrieb: okay
Raul654	actually, there was a thread on Wiki-en-l about putting clasified info onto wikipedia
Nigelenki	Sponge: yes but single instructions aren't going to be moved back and forth ;)
Duesentrieb	blankfaze: think of all the pics to come ;)
tabot2	I need some help with my WinXP box... It seems that I cannot right click the desktop and all the icons have disappeared, when I make a new account on the computer and log in then everything works... How do I fix my main account?
Nigelenki	Sponge: it's faster to move a block isn't it?
Raul654	what I deal with isn't classified (for very good reason - waaaay too many foriegn graduate students to even think about classifying it)
Raul654	BUT
Raul654	there are things they don't want leaking out
Jirate	What a suprise an other integrity free conversation with a member of ArbComm.
Sponge	Nigelenki: depends on how wide the pipe it
Sponge	s/it/is/
Raul654	the technical docs in particular
Nigelenki	Sponge: heh.
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Raul654	jirate - to whom are you referring?
NullC	Raul654: Whats the title of the docs? (so I can FOIA them, ... I paid for them darnit)
Jirate	David Gerrard is who
Raul654	NullC - it's the technical specs for BlueGene/C; for example, the floating point unit that we're using is the fastest 500 mhz FPU ever designed
Raul654	They understandably don't want it leaking out
Sponge	Nigelenki: assuming the l1 cache is 64k that's only 16 "pages" at 4k, so cacheing entire pages is wasteful, no?
Raul654	But it
Nigelenki	Sponge: another consideration is that if you move 1 instruction into L1, then execute it, you've done read from L2, written to L1, executed (read) from L1, and probably written something to L2
Sponge	floating poitn makes my head hurt. :P
Raul654	it's not FOIA material - IBM owns the designs
OldakQuill	Do we have any information on how we should make graphs look to fit in with Wikipedia?
Nigelenki	Sponge: so, why not execute from L2 (read) and probably write back to L2
Raul654	the government paid IBM to build the machine, but the Government doesn't own the design
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Sponge	Nigelenki: modern cpus can read l2 and write l1 in one clock cycle.
UninvitedCompany	Jirate: David is ordinarily a man of integrety. What happened?
Nigelenki	Sponge: I dunno about a whole page, but it's got to be moving more than just a single instruction ;) a loop perhaps would wind up cached in L1
Nigelenki	Sponge: yeas, but htat's still RW,X
Sponge	Nigelenki: but only every other clock or every 4th clock depending on the speed of l2 vs the core.
Jirate	I have posted it in the complaint about me in the requests for arbitration.
blankfaze	Duesentrieb: Is http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Licensing#Australian_Government_Copyright good?
FennecFoxen	Nigelenki: processors these days are quite parallel
Nigelenki	fennec: Yeah I know
Sponge	l2 cache used to be slower than core by a significant ammount, now it's not so slow, and I'm only "versed" up through the ppro cores. :)
Nigelenki	2-4 ALUs?
FennecFoxen	they'll do like 30 things at once
SPUI	blankfaze, it's quantized to the year
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Sponge	where their l2 ran at 1/2 speed.
DavidGerard	UninvitedCompany: I'm not sure what I can say publicly since it's a case in progress
SPUI	so anything before january 1 1955
Raul654	Btw, that reminds me
FennecFoxen	not even just alus
Nigelenki	fennec: 30 ALUs?
Raul654	Intel announced last month that they are *FINALLY* moving to a multi-core design
carthik	Is there a way to see the recent changes from a particular namespace only?
Duesentrieb	blankfaze: thanks a lot!
FennecFoxen	but they have 30-stage pipelines, that's 30 individual tasks they're doing
blankfaze	SPUI: wtf does quantized mean
Nigelenki	reactive self-modifying processor microcode?
FennecFoxen	decode instruction...
SPUI	anything before january 1 1955
NullC	Raul654: Ah. ... Thats a reoccurant lameness.. When I worked for the government we'd occasionally be planning on doing some data gathering that would produce commercially useful data that would benefit the community.... then some company would come around and offer to do this 100k project for us, for just 80k (taking a loss) so that they could hold the copyright and we couldn't redistribute the results..
Raul654	Intel is looking to pack 100 cores into a processor
DavidGerard	bish: you should submit European Toilet Paper Holder to uncyclopedia.org
SPUI	when it becomes 2006 it'll be 1956
SPUI	but always january 1
DavidGerard	the only difficulty i can see is they're under a different license, so all contributors would need to agree
NullC	Raul654: Then when the public wanted the info, they had to go buy it from the company at 10-20k per person.
Jirate	So do you Gerrard want to discuss your behaviour here?
Raul654	NullC - actually, I'm told (by not the most reliable sources) that IBM actually approached the US government and lobbied for them to start a project of this sorts
NullC	Raul654: some of the intel arm network processor chips already have a stupid number of cores in them..
Sponge	Nigelenki: so say your core is running at 100mhz and your l1 is at 100 and l2 is at 25mhz... and ram at 25mhz...
Raul654	In other words, they tried to make the government buy something it didn't think it needed... and succeeded in their efforts
FennecFoxen	Nigelenki: the idea is that the processor has to do 30 things before it's done with an instruction, so it does each of those things for a different instruction at the same time, as far as possible :)
NullC	Raul654: yea, well thats something different, I was off on a tangent.. Lots of big sales happen like that.
blankfaze	Duesentrieb: you should mark http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:SenegaleseSoldiersWWI.jpg as copyrighted, or at least unknown
Raul654	I know
Sponge	to get somethign from ram into l2 it takes 4cpu cycles, then 4 more to get it into l1.
Raul654	but then again, it pays my bills
Raul654	so I am not going to complain
Raul654	also
Raul654	the chips we're making will be available to the public
bish	DavidGerard, well...it's not mine to submit, you know?
NullC	Yea, I'm happy about that sort of thing.. long term it's good..
Raul654	or so I'm told
Duesentrieb	blankfaze: heh, i missed that one, thanks :) did you tag the cummings portrait as PD-US already?
bish	but I'll take a look at them
NullC	Better than a lot of the other stupid ways we allocate funding.
Jirate	anything said by any member of the arbcomm via any meaium will be considered public.
Sponge	but to get it from l1 to core is one cycle, so you throw 4 cycles worth of stuff into the l1 and execute it while queueing up unloading it and reloading it on the 4th cycle.
Raul654	They'll be the fastest multiprocs on the market
blankfaze	Duesentrieb: Also, will you please drop me a link on my EN talk page if anything happens to the cummings images? So I can replace them on en?
blankfaze	Duesentrieb: yes, i did
Raul654	I'm told that Northrop Grumman needs a chip like that for their phased array radar
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Raul654	because phasad array telemetry requires processing power of a magnitude not currently available
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Sponge	DSP++
NullC	Most phased array stuff just uses time domain FIR implimented directly to fpga or asic, would be weird to see someone doing that large scale with a general purpose chip.
Raul654	Right - they're gonna be IBM's second blue gene customer after the US Gov't
Sponge	wants an A-D convertor with 50ghz of bandwidth... :)
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Sponge	hello software radio. :)
Raul654	NullC - unless that chip happens to have 150 thread units
DavidGerard	bish: uncyclopedia is addictive, particularly to the recovering wikipedian
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Submarine	" I'm told (by not the most reliable sources) that IBM actually approached the US government and lobbied for them to start a project of this sorts"
bish	DavidGerard: lol, today's Featured article, IKEA: " The name IKEA is actually Swedish for 'Give us your wallet'"
Submarine	Are you STILL surprised by the US government being a source of pork barrel subsidies through the DoD?
NullC	Sponge: Well you don't need 50ghz of ad bandwidth for that.. just use a conventional pair of 100mhz ones, and a mixer for down conversion.
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bish	DavidGerard: who's recovering ? :P
Sponge	NullC: well, if you can do it efficiently with 500 off the shelf chips, why spend millions developing a 5 piece chipset to do the same work? unless oyu're goign for powe ror size constriants, there's no reason.
Raul654	LOL @ Bish
Jirate	Come on Gerard you still have questions to answer.
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Sponge	NullC: there's more to the spectrum than HF. ;-)
Raul654	Sub - for some thing no, but for this, yes
Jirate	You have started a conversation made statments and yet again refuse to explain yourself. Your attitude is clear.
NullC	Sponge: yea but if you don't need to see more than 200mhz at a time, then you'll never need more than two 100mhz adcs, an oscilator, and a mixer.
Jirate	You are not fit to hold any position in Wikipedia.
Sponge	NullC: you need a tuner on the front though... I'm talking hook the input of the DAC to the antenna and the ground to earth. :)
bish	any op around? isn't that enough?
UninvitedCompany	Jirate: I read the page. I don't understand what your point is.
NullC	Sponge: And, as I said.. for phased arrays, you usually mostly need lots of fir taps, and those are cheap to construct in fpga, which is off the shelf.
Jirate	Which page.
Sponge	NullC: I dream of someday directly reading the antenna into digital. :)
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DavidGerard	has jirate on ignore, btw.
NullC	Sponge: You can do that already if you don't care about VHF stuff..
SethIlys	hi Anthere
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DavidGerard	it makes for a much nicer environment
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Anthere	hi Seth
soufron	on the rocks
NullC	Sponge: plus it's silly, a 'tuner' for a complex reciever is nothing more than a mixer.. it's trivial to construct.
bish	DavidGerard: that's fine, but I don't (Chatzilla can't manage it)
Sponge	NullC: right, but how sensitive are they though?
Jirate	Mr Gerard and his lack of integrity and attepts to wind people up have been noted.
Sponge	NullC: but a tuner is analog. :)
bish	raul, i don't know how
Raul654	Jirate - please do not use the channel to insult people
blankfaze	holabonjour anthere
Raul654	Bish - ah, ok
blankfaze	Jirate: go away
Raul654	well hold on then, I've asked Jirate to refrain from making personal attacks and ranting in the channel
Raul654	if he refrains from them, then let him stay
bish	raul, no, i've figgered it!
NullC	Sponge: go read up on the subject.. you'll actually get a lot more sensitivity out of two low speed dacs reading a complex downconverted input then you will out of one high speed dac covering DC up.
bish	ok
Jirate	I am trying to get answers from them and have been insulted by arbcommers on it. I haven't seen a rule which says they are treated spcially,
Jirate	Were have I made a personal attack?
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Sponge	NullC: I'm aware of that, but I'm saying that someday the high speed dac will exist to have a single conversion radio from VLF-XHF :)
FennecFoxen	Jirate: Your hostility here is not acceptable; you will end up silenced before long at this rate
bish	jirate, how about "lack of integrity"?
NullC	Sponge: I'm somewhat doubtful, it's very difficult to make parts that work across many octaves..
sannse	*Arbitration annoucement* - the case "Baku Ibne, et al." is now closed - please could an admin see Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Admin enforcement requested for a blocking request - thank you
FennecFoxen	14:10 <Jirate> Mr Gerard and his lack of integrity and attepts to wind people up have been noted.
FennecFoxen	that's an attempt to wind people up
blankfaze	Jirate: it's not so much that they are treated specially, just that they are very, very respected users who were democratically elected by the community
Raul654	smiles at the compliment
Jirate	When someone refuses to explain themselves that is a sign of a lack of integrity.
Sponge	NullC: at one time it was thought that communication above 14mhz was impossible too. ;-)
FennecFoxen	Jirate: The bulk of us are convinced of his integrity and consider your demands friviolous and a waste of time
Duesentrieb	blankfaze: thanks for your cooperation! I'm off for now, you can find me on #de.wikipedia and often also on #wikimedia and #mediawiki - chears!
NullC	Sponge: well in your case I don't know that anyone is working on addressing your problem, because I don't think it is widely regarded as important.
Raul654	Sponge - at one time, people thought that it was humanly impossible to go past the speed of sound
blankfaze	Duesentrieb: no problem, thanks for you cooperation
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Sponge	Raul654: or blood would boil over X mph. ;-)
SethIlys	At one time, it was thought that accelleration to 35mph would kill people.
Raul654	Sponge - in the 1950s, a group of british doctors said that running a sub-4-minute-mile was physically impossible
NullC	and they even had steroids in the 1950s....
Jirate	I care about as much about your opinion as you do about mine.
Pope^Jillocent^3	Trains would frighten the cows into not giving milk and /or death.
Sponge	blames eugenics. :)
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Sponge	Pope^Jillocent^3: heh, cowcatchers proved that wrong. ;)
=-=	YOU have been booted from #wikipedia by bish (bish)
[INFO]	You are banned from this channel.

--Jirate 18:20, 2005 Apr 10 (UTC)