Talk:Flag of Argentina

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Heraldry and vexillology

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Revisionism

But it's a fact that the bourbons had those same colours, so it's plausible. The problem here (and with revisionism in general) is that it's hard to separate thruth from years of idealization, don't forget that during General Peron's goverment education exalted "patriotic / nacionalistic" feelings (much like other presidents / dictators in europe), the best way to do that was remarking militaristic succeses of the past. Belgrano wasn't a soldier, he was a lawyer, even though he was sent to fight, and that was that was remarked, "created the flag before a battle", not his work as lawyer (wich was as or more important).

Although Belgrano was a lawyer, his important role in Argentinian history was as a soldier and member of the First National Government. It is true and no one doubts it that the flag was first raised after a battle near the Paraná river, by Belgrano's order.

The Flag didn't exist in the May 25th Revolution, but the colors were already in use, and people saw them as a symbol of self-ruling. That is, not being ruled by Spanish juntas while Ferdinand VII was prisioner.

This seems non-neutral; it talks of "me", and thinks like that. Also, the Flag didn't even exist in the times of the May 25th revolution, so it has no sense that hypothesis.

1º The flag didn´t exist during the revolution of may. But during the last part of the 25th may, those who were supporting a local “junta” instead of the viceroy used a cockade with the bourbons colors (white and blue) 2º When Belgrano ordered his troops to use the bourbons color it was because the mess during the battle. Both troops were using at that time the same uniforms, flags and other symbols (royalist and revolutionaries). Most of them were RED, because the Spaniard empire flag and symbols were red and white - The red crux- 3º then the argentine flag and symbols were at first time to identify the troops in the battlefield chaos. Were Blues against the Reds. 4º The same happened with the ships. Under contract with Buenos Aires, the privateers should use their own variant of the blue and white stripes flags. It was in the contracts. The cockade was the first national symbol. The second was the shield, then the flag became the third. The shield wasn’t blue and white until the flag became popular. That flag was use before with militia forces than in civilian institutions. The privateers with argentina flags variant were even in united estates, in texas –galvestone island- and in Baltimore. The privateers from Baltimore use variant flag of Argentina during the blockade over the Spaniard port of Cádiz.

Colours

The Colours of the flag is a little bit different from waht is stated in the article currently. The correct colours are as follows (source: http://www.manuelbelgrano.gov.ar/bandera_colores.htm ):


Web:
	RGB
	252-191-73	117-170-219	132-53-17	255-255-255
	RGB Hexadecimal
	FCBF49	75AADB	843511	FFFFFF
Textiles:	14-1064TC	16-4132TC	18-1441TC
Graphics:	1235C or 116U	284C or 284U	1685C or 1675U
Plastics:	Q03021	Q30041	Q12024

Source: [1]

I have updated the article accordingly. ButterBar (talk) 03:14, 21 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

---

Where are the colour specifications in the current version of the article from? --ALE! 12:51, 29 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

---

There's a mistake with the Pantone (print) for the brown - it says 284 which is blue (so it's mistakenly put as the same as the pantone for light blue there). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.17.207.92 (talk) 06:35, 12 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Ratio

I've just updated the flag using the data at http://www.manuelbelgrano.gov.ar/bandera_colores.htm, but it suggests a ratio of 1.6 (15:24), not the 1.5 (9:14) that this article claims is legislated. Has anyone a link to a copy of the legislation setting this ratio? I'll update the image's ratio if & when I find one. ¦ Reisio 23:35, 31 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Nevermind - someone informed me at Commons:Image talk:Flag of Argentina.svg & it's been updated to 9:14. ¦ Reisio 00:08, 3 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Translation of Aurora

Unless this is an official translation, I'd suggest a few changes...

Line 2: I'd use "soars"
Home country -> Homeland

And maybe a few others. What say ye? elpincha 16:52, 10 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well, there's more to it than that. there are also some literal translation gamatical problems. I think you are better qualified to fix it, so give it a go, without mercy. Mariano(t/c) 07:43, 11 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Mmmhh. A quick one would be...

Alta en el cielo, un águila guerrera
Audaz se eleva en vuelo triunfal.
Azul un ala del color del cielo,
Azul un ala del color del mar. 

Así en el alta aurora irradial.
Punta de flecha el áureo rostro imita.
Y forma estela el purpurado cuello.
El ala es paño, el águila es bandera. 

Es la bandera de la patria mía,
del sol nacida que me ha dado Dios. 
Es la bandera de la patria mía,
del sol nacida que me ha dado Dios.

High in the sky, a warrior eagle
Boldly soaring in triumphal flight
One wing blue, as is the sky
One wing blue, as is the sea

Thus in the beaming dawn
The head in gold, like an arrow's tip
The purple-clad neck marking its path
The wings are cloth, the eagle is the flag 

This is the flag of my homeland,
Born out of the sun, [and] given to me by God
(repeat)

This is a little better, but not too good. Problems abound: the "estela/cuello" verse does not make much sense, and the last verse should imply that the flag (not the Sun) is being referred to. Also, I am a prose kind of guy. elpincha 18:29, 11 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'd suggest to change "Punta de flecha el áureo rostro imita. = The head in gold, like an arrow's tip" for "like an arrow's tip the golden face imitates/copies".
Don't mind much about the "nonsesenceness" of the translation, considere that spanish is a richer language (I mean, it has many more adjectives and nouns that are used often / more words a native speaker doesn't need to seek in a dictionary) --Argentino (talk/cont.) 20:06, 11 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well, it is better. I'd also change to "Blue one wing, of the colour of the sky", "The arrow's head, like the golden face" and "From the sun born, that God has given me". Some things are hard to translate when you aren't sure whether they were high when they wrote it or what. "Punta de flecha el áureo rostro imita." doesn't make much sence to me in any language... Mariano(t/c) 06:52, 12 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The one that is "high in the sky" is the eagle, and my personal interpretation is that [the eagle flies like] the tip of an arrow, imitating the golden fage [(the sun)]. It is a very eliptical pice of poetry, maybe too much. --Argentino (talk/cont.) 18:05, 12 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I made a few small changes, not relevant to the meaning but maybe to the prose and style. I do like the "Blue one Wing...." change that Mariano proposes but I would leave "from the sun born..." as "born from the sun" while changing the rest of the sentence ("God has given me", not "us") Sebastian Kessel ^Talk 18:12, 12 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thinking twice about it, I realized that "del Sol nacida" and "que me ha dado Dios" are two different sentences. It doesn't mean "nacida del sol que me dio Dios" as the current translation implies. Maybe "Born from the sun, given to me by God" (with the comma) would make the translation more precise.

Sebastian Kessel ^Talk 18:15, 12 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Merging information

Does anyone mind if I put the "list of Argentine Flags" or something like that, wich has the provincial flags to this article, like in the german featured article? --Argentino (talk/cont.) 19:21, 12 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think it's best to have them separated, is it is now at List of Argentine flags. The link is accessible through the {{National emblems of Argentina}} templete at the end of the article. Mariano(t/c) 09:01, 15 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Wall Street Journal article

There was a Wall Street Journal article the other day on debates on the shades of blue in the flag. Apparently, it's actually a contentious issue. I started to add something about it, but I felt like a big phony because I know almost nothing about Argentine politics or history. So I thought I'd leave it to somebody a bit more knowledgeable. The article is here. —Chowbok 17:19, 30 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't read the Wall Street Journal article but I know there is a controversy, too. JonnyLate 23:31, 13 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

http://www.manuelbelgrano.gov.ar/bandera_colores.htm
http://www.iram.com.ar/Normalizacion/departamentos/oe.asp?mOrg=-2147483046&nOrg=SubComit%C3%A9%20Tejidos%20(IRAM%20-DEF)
¦ Reisio 00:57, 14 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ornamental flag

Until when is this the main flag? I've noticed on the FIFA World Cup that the ornamental flag is used for earlier instances. --Howard the Duck 07:00, 22 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, it was on 1978 - can somebody give the exact date? On World Cup pages, the ornamental flag is displayed - not the one with the sun. --Howard the Duck 07:22, 22 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's a common misconception that Argentina has an alternative flag. Since 1985, Argentine Law states there is only one (with sun enblem). Prior that law, the matter was simply unruled but debated between civil and military POVs. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 168.101.128.48 (talk) 20:39, 28 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The red cockade and the Order of Carlos III

To my dismay, I read: While in Rosario he (Manuel Belgrano) noticed that both the royalist and patriotic forces were using the same colors, Spain's yellow and red [...] However, recent research and studies would indicate that the colors were chosen from the coat of arms of the House of Bourbon .

The Spanish cockade in 1810 was red, not red and yellow. Tha latter was introduced (unsuccessfully) in 1843-1844 and (succesfully) in 1871. The red and yellow 1785 flag was just the naval ensign, used since the early 1790s in naval harbours and coastal forts. The Spanish soldiers in 1810 wore a red cockade on the hat. On the other hand, the Argentinian flag looks like the Order of Carlos III's sash. The Bourbons's colour, on the other hand, was the white one, as seen in the french cockades before the Revolution, as well as in the pre-Revolutionary French naval ensign, that was plain white. The coat of arms of the House of Bourbon-Anjou, that ruled Spain since 1701 (well, with a civil war in 1705-1714) , was blue (the field), yellow (the fleurs-de-lys) and red (the border). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.142.175.22 (talk) 10:44, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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2012?

Is there a source for the 2012 standardization claim? – Illegitimate Barrister (talk • contribs), 04:30, 21 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Flag with the sun to the left never exist

This is totally wrong, some read the source? A old german plate with flags, I have multiple old dictionaries with wrong flags. Never exist that, and the flag was always with th sun, the legislation only change that all the flags needed to have the sun when was use by civilians181.29.110.174 (talk) 00:04, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]