Talk:Baja California peninsula

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Dates

According to the article, the split into Alta and Baja took place in both 1773 and 1804. Can't be both. –Hajor 13:19, 12 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, it's true, i did not notice it until now, i would like to check that... the reason that i put down that date was because that is the year that appears in the inscription on the marker..., i was down there this last weekend, i will investigate and make any correction necesary... of course that correction on the inscription will be a little more difficult. =) By the way... where did you get the 1804 info?

dates

Sorry if i did anything wrong in my last answer to you... im quite new to all of this and not much of a computer expert... like i mentioned before i appreciate your comments and will look into them... i think i should have a reasonable answer in a couple of days...EjidoMike 05:05, July 13, 2005 (UTC)

I found the following information on the bajaquest.com website... it quotes the same Sociedad de Historia De rosarito A.C. as the source for the info - the same society that erected the marker - :

"In 1767 the Jesuits were expelled from Mexico in a political-religious decision, the Franciscans were asked to take over the administration of the missions. In 1772, a concordat (agreement) was signed between the King of Spain -with the support of the Viceroy of New Spain (Mexico) and the Pope- and the leaders of the Dominican and Franciscan monks resulting in the division of California in 1773, using the local mountain range that meet the sea at Calafia. The Palou Frontier was establish as the dividing line between Nueva (new) or Alta (upper) California and Antigua (old) of Baja (lower) California."

I also found many websites that indicate 1804 as the year the partition took place... i will keep looking into this. EjidoMike 05:45, July 13, 2005 (UTC)

That 1804 date goes back to the very earliest versions of the article. From what I've been reading, I assume there were two divisions -- one religious in 1773, and the other political/administrative in 1804. It's still not clear. Keep looking! –Hajor 14:05, 13 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Im looking into this with a friend of mine... i think we should come up with some convincing theory... i'll keep you posted. (and see!!! i worked out how to reply correctly!!!!) EjidoMike 04:44, July 14, 2005 (UTC)

I think we got this figured out now... i'll be posting our research and sources soon EjidoMike 03:03, August 2, 2005 (UTC)

You're welcome. I'll keep you posted when I find out more (124.157.247.21 16:03, 1 October 2007 (UTC))[reply]

Tourist sites

Could someone please edit this article to include some links to some points of interest.

>>>I have repeatedly but JOHN HARDER deletes my links and discredits my BAJA site as SPAM

www.baja.org —Preceding unsigned comment added by 1stMensch (talk • contribs) 04:11, 14 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Name

Is "Baja California Peninsula" an official name? Otherwise for the sake of consistency (and easier wikilinking) I propose the article is renamed "Baja California peninsula". Thanks for any insights, David Kernow 14:36, 22 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"Baja California Norte"

Since Baja California became a state, its official designation is no longer Baja California Norte. Baja California is the political designation for the northern state. Nonetheless, "Baja California Norte" continues to be commonly used as an informal designation, to distinguish it from the peninsula as a whole (which is also commonly referred to simply as "Baja California"). Yes, "Baja California Norte" is merely an informal designation. No, it is NOT incorrect! RhymeNotStutter 00:14, 18 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, "Baja California Norte" is merely an informal designation, informal but also INCORRECT!. The official state name is Baja California. When the North Territory of Baja California became a state the term "NORTH" didnt form part of the official name. There is a Baja California Sur but not a Baja California Norte because it doesn't exist. I live in Baja California and it is a little annoying to hear about BCN, imagine to read it in a global SOURCE of information. It's a common error, even to many mexicans, but Baja California Norte is a WRONG desiganation. JC 15:20, 18 January 2007 (PST)

You misunderstand what it means for a geographical designation to be "wrong" or "incorrect". If someone says that Ensenada is the capital of Baja California, that's factually wrong. If someone says that Eugenio Elorduy Walther is the governor of Baja California Norte, that's wrong, because "Baja California Norte" isn't the name of the political entity of which he's governor. If someone says that Ensenada is located in the Great Basin, that's wrong, because it's contrary to the accepted understanding of what the "Great Basin" means geographically. "Baja California Norte" is a well-established geographical (not political) term for the northern half of the Baja California peninsula. It isn't the official designation for the state in that region, so it's use should be labelled as informal, but it certainly is not wrong. Google Search shows approximately 942,000 hits for "Baja California Norte", so it's a well-established established usage. As a personal perference, you may not care for it, and you may wish it would stop. As a matter of fact, I never use "Baja California Norte" myself. Nonetheless, the purpose of Wikipedia is to inform its readers of facts, not to dictate to them your personal preferences or mine. Please don't label as "inaccurate" or "wrong" an accepted geographical usage that you don't happen to like. RhymeNotStutter 23:19, 19 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Geographically there is a single region, the Baja California Peninsula, politically divided into 2 states. We normal use the name of the states to specify a region of the peninsula. The former Territory of Baja California was divide into 2 territories:

1) the North(northern) Territory of Baja California, now the state of Baja California.

2) the South(southern) Territory of Baja California, now the state of Baja California Sur.

You want facts, read this: http://www.bajacalifornia.gob.mx/portal/nuestro_estado/historia/transformacion.jsp and http://www.bcs.gob.mx/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=330&Itemid=73 You will find that Baja Califoria Norte has never been existed, geographically or politically talking.

The usage of the term could be very popular, but it's usage is not just innacurate, it is incorrect. It doesn't matter how many hits can google find, or if it is a well-established usage, this doesn't make it right.

I'm not asking to erase the term, just to inform that it use is not just informal, it is also inaccurate and sometimes incorrect.

JC 17:16, 19 January 2007 (PST)

Jcmenal: please stop trying to assert your personal preference in geographical terms as "fact". As you are aware, "Baja California Norte" has been used extensively, including in publications issued by the Mexican government, including the titles of books by at least two Mexican Presidents (Adolfo Ruiz Cortines and José López Portillo). No, it is not an official political designation. Neither is the regional term "Southern California," which has no political status, but it's usage is still perfectly correct. It is not appropriate to try to use Wikipedia as a medium to foist your personal preferences on readers as "fact" or to dismiss established a well-established usage as "incorrect" because you do not like it. RhymeNotStutter 00:20, 16 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Personal references??, you edited the note and you added the official designation, do you have an official source of this?, I fixed your edit. The confusion here is that the northern part was never called Baja California Norte, however it was officially called Territorio Norte de la Baja California or Distrito Norte de la Baja California, also there is just one sourced region the Baja California Peninsula; to talk about the northern part we use "en el norte de la peninsula" never Baja California Norte. Please read the current and past Mexican costitutions, and Baja California constitution, you wont find an official "Baja California Norte" designation. Many Mexicans believes that Baja California Norte existed and/or is the real name of the current state right now, including former presidents; even legal institutions like banks or enterprises have used or uses Baja California Norte, but it is incorrect. JC 22:25, 15 March 2007 (PST)

One final point of interest: in Mexico, are "regions" officially designated entities? In the United States, they are not. "Regions" in the U.S. are informal geographical designations, established by conventional usage and not by legislation. So saying that a term for a region is not "official" would make no sense, at least in the U.S. If "regions" in Mexico are officially designated, then is "Baja California Peninsula" an officially established designation, or is its use also "incorrect", according to what you're saying? If "regions" are official in Mexico, then what term would you use for a category like "el norte de la peninsula" or, probably, "Baja California Peninsula"? Wouldn't "Baja California Norte" fall into that same class: a geographical term that "we use", as you wrote (but "we" in this case would mean Mexican presidents, banks, publishers, and many, many other people, although not you or me as individuals)? RhymeNotStutter 14:47, 16 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No they aren't in the current constitution, in past constitution the entities were also called "provinces". Regions in Mexico, as in the US are informal geographical designations, established by conventional usage and not by legislation. "Baja California Peninsula" is a geographical region of course inside a semi-official region called "Northwest" (used by government statistical dependencies). I tried to explain to you, "Baja California Norte" is always used to be refer to the state not to the northern part of the region thats why its usage is incorrect. I'm not pointing to you, as I siad, sadly most of the Mexicans believes that "Baja California Norte" is the official name of the state (including former presidents, banks and specially publishers), even the US embassy uses "Baja California Norte" as the official state name. JC 8:20, 16 March 2007 (PST)

picture caption

It's not actually highlighted, its a topographic map. 24.91.9.206 19:50, 5 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Annex by US

Wasn't there an offer to annex/sell Baja California to the US during WW2 ? I have heard the story, but seen no references, that it was offered to Franklin Roosevelt around the time of the Pearl Harbor attack. - Bill 20:56, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Northern America

The article says: " It is considered territory of Northern America. "

This is at odds with the Wikipedia page "Northern America".

I've no idea which is correct, but one of the two pages needs to be changed.

Ordinary Person 08:45, 18 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's North America. We cross into South America when we pass Panama. (Nurse Hilditch 16:07, 1 October 2007 (UTC))[reply]

Yup, it is a North American territory; it belonged to Northern America when the peninsula was part of the New Spain and the early years of independent Mexico. JC 10:05 1 Octuber 2007 (UTC-8)

Demographics

5% Asian (Most of them Filipinos)???, where you found this information, most of the Asian population here is Chinese. JC February 27 2007, 22:50 (PST)

Where are these demographic statistics coming from? I have never seen such a detailed survey for Baja California. 10% Asian seems to be a bit high; from sight I would say 4% max. As far as the other statistics, its hard telling. I have been in parts where there is a significant European component, but where are the official numbers? Libertythor 05:38, 18 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

California Island?

The paragraph speculating that the Baja will continue to grow and turn parts of the State of California with it into a large island is written poorly and without citation, leading me, a normal person, to believe, from the wording use, that this will happen very soon, instead of millions or billions of years into the future. I suggest somebody, with extensive geologic knowledge re-write this portion of the article. Sierraoffline444 (talk) 08:38, 10 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Chopped that along with more of the redundant to irrelevant stuff. Vsmith (talk) 14:31, 10 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

was any land sold in this area —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.213.65.18 (talk) 00:20, 21 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Not moved. The requesting editor has been blocked as a sockpuppet of a banned editor, and the balance of the arguments presented by the remaining participants does not support the move. RL0919 (talk) 13:22, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Baja California peninsula → Baja California Peninsula — Relisted. Vegaswikian (talk) 19:52, 23 January 2011 (UTC)Capital P as for all(?) peninsulas in Category:Peninsulas by country that use the term "peninsula" in the article title.--TopoChecker (talk) 16:11, 16 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Evidence for existence of upper case can be found via http://www.google.com/search?q=%22baja+california+peninsula%22 - both variants seem possible, so WP can choose. If all(?!) other peninsulas are written with capital P, then this one should use upper case too? TopoChecker (talk) 02:59, 17 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose; as near as I can tell, "peninsula" is not part of the formation's name. I have no idea why all other peninsulas are so capitalized. Powers ^T 18:22, 16 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Because they are proper names? Like "Lake", and "Ocean" are part of "Great Salt Lake" and "Pacific Ocean"? TopoChecker (talk) 02:52, 17 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - I rarely see peninsulas labeled on maps, so I admit I can be wrong. I'd like to see some sources, though. It seems to me that terms like "Baja California" and "Demarva" are often seen in isolation, but then the same is true of "Pacific" and "Tahoe" so it's hard to say. Powers ^T 15:04, 17 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support "Baja California Peninsula" is a proper name, as the nominator correctly points out. Compare with Baja California Desert. The Celestial City (talk) 13:47, 17 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Is the state (Baja California) really the primary topic? Or is it the peninsula? Should the state be at Baja California (state) and move this article to Baja California or Baja California (peninsula) since it's usually just called Baja (California) without a modifier? — AjaxSmack 18:00, 17 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I guess none can be called clearly primary as defined by the guideline. "Baja California Peninsula" is just more clear and it is the way several peninsulas are named. Nevertheless, I would support moving the state to "Baja California (state)". There was also a Baja California Territory existing for more than 100 years. Baja California could be a dab page. TopoChecker (talk) 01:29, 18 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose The formal name of Yorke Peninsula etc. contains the word "Peninsula" in capitals, hence it is included in the title name. There is no evidence that the formal name or the WP:COMMONNAME of Baja California contains the word "Peninsula" (no, the google search linked above is not evidence of either). If the term "peninsula" must be used for disambiguation purposes, then it should be in parentheses i.e. Baja California (peninsula) to avoid any inference that "Peninsula" or "peninsula" are part of the topic's name. -- Mattinbgn (talk) 02:52, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

AFAICT peninsulas do not have formal names. TopoChecker (talk) 19:42, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support The GEOnet Names Server says the peninsula is called either "Baja California" or "Península de la Baja California". Also, the word "peninsula" is certainly part of the proper name of specific landforms in English, see U.S. Geological Survey Geographic Names Information System: San Francisco Peninsula and U.S. Geological Survey Geographic Names Information System: Delmarva Peninsula (and literally hundreds of others listed at GNIS). Furthermore, we have pages like Iberian Peninsula, Kamchatka Peninsula, and so on. Pfly (talk) 20:31, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Rewrite for a less Euro-centric bias?

This article could stand to be expanded. The current state doesn't match Wikipedia quality standards I've come to expect. Both its history section and timeline begin with arrival European explorers. I suggest more detail, significance, and at least a passing mention of indigenous peoples and cultures. 24.40.144.211 (talk) 03:36, 9 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Baja California Peninsula

The article is named "Baja California peninsula", but English Wikipedia uses upper case for class names, compare these peninsula articles:

Eldizzino (talk) 18:01, 22 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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"Baja, California" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Baja, California and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 August 30#Baja, California until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Tigraan^{Click here for my talk page ("private" contact)} 11:43, 30 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Baja California which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 22:02, 2 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Secret cartography

This sentence in the history section - A reason for such a mistake could have been originated in the secret in what the Spaniards hold their cartography far from other European powers' eyes - is referenced but makes limited sense. Anyone with knowledge of the topic care to improve it? Geopersona (talk) 06:41, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]